View Full Version : First real rant in ages...Enjoy
tony d
02-12-2006, 02:39 PM
Lots of people have lots of ideas for whats best for the team or indeed what is our best team.. My rant for the day is plain and simple and goes like this..:D
Thing is people want players playing in all sorts of positions.. Penford got "play him every week hes awesome Todd doesnt know what he is doing"
All after one decent game..Hes now nothing special at all and no better than what we have already...
Deanos was " Play him in midfield to strengthen it up, Todd hasnt got a clue" When he played there he was lazy and uninterested and once again it was Todds fault...
Bowers now is play him on the wings ffs
The amount of times fans cry for this change and that, predict what is our strongest line up and how it should be run, changes as soon as that team has played and turns in the same performance...
Thats why a manager manages and doesnt listen to all us lot talking shite..
The manager picks the best team, he chooses the tactics, the players then go on the pitch and either all decide to play or shirk away.. The players at our club are in the main the real reason for the performances we see week in week out.. Only a few stand out every game as players with passion.
The others are the ones who sometimes are shit hot and other times just crap.. Once you cross the whitewash its those 11 who are to blame, the manager has only three choices to change things. Now our bench isnt the strongest so changes in the main make no difference whatsoever..
Do i think Todd has no blame here? Do i fook...However proportionally he has alot less than some of the so called senior players who just cannot be arsed..
Motivation??? They have their instructions and if things go off plan new ones are given and dont try tell me they dont. They get paid to play for the club and perform accordingly. The manager always does what he can at any club.
Someone on here mentioned that Newcastle were playing their socks off now Souness had gone and it was all his fault...For me thats bollux the players now are playing for contracts thats all..They were the same players playing the SAME tactics...
Now if you think it is ok for a team to play shite to rid themselves of a manager then you cannot be a real football fan. Players should give 100% every week not when they feel like it!!!!
We as a club are been let down by players who cannot either perform at this level or cannot be bothered to week in week out... Nothing Todd can do will change that unless more players come in...
The end of the season will see lots of players leaving and hopefully the right ones will be shown the door...
As for the manager if he goes at the end of the season the new one wil get to pick the new guys coming in with whatever buget he has... Then the same rollercoaster ride will happen again...
Lets see how long it is before the new guy if we get one last before he is slated, or someone claims to have not wanted the loser in the first place.:mad:
Mallorcabantam
02-12-2006, 02:47 PM
What a rant!!!!
I have blamed the players (some, not all) for a while now, so if thats a rant tony d, I'm with you on most of it
Parrot
02-12-2006, 02:57 PM
Well CTs been at the club for almost 2 years if you count his stint as coach with Robbo, enough time IMO to sort out the Chaff, you cannot say that the team Isn't his own now can you?
What seperates a good manager from a bad one, especially in a division so average as this one, is the ability to get ALL the players playing 100% in every game, something you've admitted CT cant do in your post!
Stick up for CT all you like mate, if it makes you feel better, thats your opinion, but for me he's not the man to progress us up the league & never will be, isn't that our aim as a club?
I dont like seeing managers come & go through revolving doors at VP, i'd sooner have stability, but at the expense of boring, negative, non-progressive football?
Give someone else a chance, they can only fail, who knows we may find a Bothroyd or Jewell, you never know!
tony d
02-12-2006, 03:05 PM
Read into that how you want..I also said half the players shouldnt be allowed to wear the shirt again if you read into it rightly...
The players are the ones who are not performing and if youre happy with that by blaming the manager then fine..But when only half the team are playing and the rest of the prima donners or donkeys are been carried even Fergie would look bad...
Difference being he has others he can bring in to change things...
Bring on the summer i say and clean the decks of all the hangers on and dead wood...
The manager is always the scape goat and i suppose that is what hes paid for..But when the next one comes in and the same shite happens that has now gone on to every manager since Jewell you have to ask yourself how many times we have let a manager go when its down to the players on the park...
You see one thing i see another P...Cannot wait to see who you will be blaming next if and when Todd goes.
Parrot
02-12-2006, 03:17 PM
Whats the point in having a manager then?
Surely its his job to get the players to jump through hoops on the pitch?
Most of the squad are now CT signings, he brought them to the club so is he beyond critisism?
I agree the players arent playing to their potential, only difference between our views is who to blame!
I bet you would admit that Paul Jewell got us to the Premiership not the players wouldn't you?
The buck stops with the manager, if we were successfull he'd get all the plaudits, when were sh/te its his fault, its a double edged sword, always as been always will be!
Mallorcabantam
02-12-2006, 03:26 PM
3 Big favorites with City fans have recently be put forward as possible next managers of city – Mac God, Peter Begrie and Wayne Jacobs –
Why, because these three lived and breathed C&A, they always went on the field and gave their 110% plus and even now, in their twilight years they will still be doing this.
Why, because this is the type of player they are, no matter who was or is their manager or what team they play for they went onto the pitch and gave their all, CT does not have 11 players in the whole squad who will do this, and this is a problem for him, he may (or may not) fire the players up but when some of them cross the line they just aren’t bothered if things are not going well for the team.
But as Parrot says -- its always the managers fault
wykie
02-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Thing is people want players playing in all sorts of positions.. Penford got "play him every week hes awesome Todd doesnt know what he is doing"
All after one decent game..Hes now nothing special at all and no better than what we have already...
Who ever said that is wrong Tony, hes a breath of fresh air in the team, a gem whoo's not done a thing wrong IMHO.
gaza75
02-12-2006, 03:39 PM
The problem is that the club is in a very dodgy posistion if we keep Todd then there is going to be a big slump in season tickets.To be honest if Todd is given the funds then i wouldn't trust him with it the man has been at our club long enough and we look like a very average team in a piss poor league.I mean we are in a relagation battle and if HIS players are not intrested then it's time for someone to come into the club and kick all the dead wood out that he has brought in.
Not looking great is it a relagation battle and if we do get out of it we have the summer to contend with god knows what will happen then
tony d
02-12-2006, 03:58 PM
Most of the squad are now CT signings, he brought them to the club so is he beyond critisism?
Lets look at that shall we for a moment..
His team still here
1. Ricketts great keeper, less kicking, :D
2. Stew Peas looks the part now,
3. MBW is favoured amongst most fans
4. Cookey worlds most unlucky striker
5. Edghill is more than capable
His but not good enough
Cadders work horse but no end product
Claridge not my cup of tea..
Petta turned out to be a doozy...
Already here and good enough
6. Wethers,
7. Bower,
8. Deano when he can be bothered that is.
Already here but not 100% or just not good enough
Penford, Lewis, Kearney, Brown,Wright,Morrison, Swift,Schuey, all here already werent they???
Who signed Holloway cannot remember???:D
May have mixed up a couple from Robson era but as you see, the players who are his and good enough would i suggest all get in most of our starting 11s less Petta and old man Claridge. They, less the same guys always seem to give all even if its not good enough. Add to those Wethers and Bower and Deano and you have 8 players...
11 men make a team, when we go out 3 men short sometimes 4 we will never compete will we...
laxstax
02-12-2006, 04:32 PM
[QUOTE=tony d]
Thing is people want players playing in all sorts of positions.. Penford got "play him every week hes awesome Todd doesnt know what he is doing"
All after one decent game..Hes now nothing special at all and no better than what we have already...
Deanos was " Play him in midfield to strengthen it up, Todd hasnt got a clue" When he played there he was lazy and uninterested and once again it was Todds fault...
Bowers now is play him on the wings ffs...
The manager picks the best team, he chooses the tactics, the players then go on the pitch and either all decide to play or shirk away.. The players at our club are in the main the real reason for the performances we see week in week out.. Only a few stand out every game as players with passion.
QUOTE]
the thing is a team has to pull together 100% if there's a week link then you've had it. half of the players dont get to play their own position so i'm not suprised if they under perform as that is CTs fault as well as playing a defensive game. Penford is a C-midfielder but has been playing a more defensive role in the last few games. the first game he played (about 5 back) was the one with his most involvement where his skill shone through and that was because he was playing HIS position. since then he's been quieter cos CTs put him in the defensive role -- at least he gets the ball to where it needs to be 99% of the time.
decisions like that i put down to management.
city should practice for better passing and spatial awareness with set moves. if the players are in a position to move them out of it does cause disruption and that is unfortunately what CT does and thats why the lads lack confidence and gusto.
tony d
02-12-2006, 05:05 PM
The fact players play out of position shows a few glaringly obvious things to me...
1. Normal players must be injured
2. Players we have in those position normally are not cutting the mustard so a change for changes sake is needed
3. The quality in back up isnt up to scratch...
Now all those are true at sometime in this season. Whats also true is none of the above is the managers fault..
You cannot polish a turd and we have some that Esholt wouold have been proud of over the years:D
I agree with lax, and wykie. Penford is a class player, being asked to play in a defensive role, no change there then:rolleyes: A leopard cannot change his spots, Todd always wants a defensive team out home or away. But it is not working, because like yesterday, something happens mistakes are made and bingo you are either one nil down or lose your advantage.
I agree with Parrot; if it is not the responsibility of the manager to get the best out of the players I don't know whose it is. The fact that his 'message' is not getting through is not the players fault; as a manager you have to be inspirational enough to get the players playing exactly how you want them to, bring out the best in each and every player, puff them up with confidence so they feel free to play their best, make sure they understand what the script is, and most of all listen to the players, some would you believe might know a thing or two about playing football. If you do most of that most of the time, you have a team playing like a team, playing out of their skin, playing for each other, and most of all playing for the fans, and....................will get results, no matter what their skill level. That kind of team can and do win against better opposition.
tony d
02-12-2006, 05:30 PM
Penford is ten million miles from being a class player..He is at best average. Nothing more nothing less...
Hes also lightweight...
As for the rest re read this and tell me im wrong. 8 players do not make a team BG no matter how you try butter em up or slate the manager..Blinkers are for horses people...:rolleyes: ;)
Lets look at that shall we for a moment..
His team still here
1. Ricketts great keeper, less kicking,
2. Stew Peas looks the part now,
3. MBW is favoured amongst most fans
4. Cookey worlds most unlucky striker
5. Edghill is more than capable
His but not good enough
Cadders work horse but no end product
Claridge not my cup of tea..
Petta turned out to be a doozy...
Already here and good enough
6. Wethers,
7. Bower,
8. Deano when he can be bothered that is.
Already here but not 100% or just not good enough
Penford, Lewis, Kearney, Brown,Wright,Morrison, Swift,Schuey, all here already werent they???
Who signed Holloway cannot remember???
May have mixed up a couple from Robson era but as you see, the players who are his and good enough would i suggest all get in most of our starting 11s less Petta and old man Claridge. They, less the same guys always seem to give all even if its not good enough. Add to those Wethers and Bower and Deano and you have 8 players...
11 men make a team, when we go out 3 men short sometimes 4 we will never compete will we...
Shipley Bantam
02-12-2006, 05:39 PM
Someone on here mentioned that Newcastle were playing their socks off now Souness had gone and it was all his fault...For me thats bollux the players now are playing for contracts thats all..They were the same players playing the SAME tactics...
Now if you think it is ok for a team to play shite to rid themselves of a manager then you cannot be a real football fan. Players should give 100% every week not when they feel like it!!!!
You say that Tony yet once Perrain had been sacked from Portsmouth, Stefanovich the captain publicly admitted he didn't try as hard as he did under Redknapp; the previous manager. You telling me thats not down to motivation?
Penford is a very good player already and will be a class player, and I am not blinkered, he looks the part. Yes his legs could do with a bit more muscle, but what the hell, he doesn't have to be built like a horse to play good football. You might not like him, that is your view, I do.
I would not particular disagree with your lists, but what is a manager there for, if not get the best out of players. To be a good leader or any description you have to know what is a players strengths and weaknesses. Continually trying to play the same player out of position, despite the world and his dog knowing he is a left back and only a left back is in my view totally out of order, whether you are short of people in that position or not, all you do is destroy their confidence(Lewis) Cadders is not and never will be a striker!!!!!!! He is however, a reasonably good winger who will supply strikers and score the odd one as good wingers do.
You discuss players who were here already and in your view not good enough, and therefore not the managers fault. Good managers get the best out of players regardless of whether they signed them or not; we do not have the luxury of having a manager who wants all his own players and can't be bothered to find out the best positions and skills of player already here, or destroy them by playing them out of position. I have seen enough of Todd, to know that he is uninspiring, stubburn, clueless(subs, and team selection) and worst of all, blames his players in public, now that I cannot abide. I am waiting for him to stand up and take our team's dismal home performances on the chin like he should; and then who knows the might get the players respect, and then they might start to trust and play for him.....these players may well get paid, but they are not robots.
ChuckleBantam
02-12-2006, 06:11 PM
Penford is a very good player already and will be a class player, and I am not blinkered, he looks the part. Yes his legs could do with a bit more muscle, but what the hell, he doesn't have to be built like a horse to play good football. You might not like him, that is your view, I do.
Translated; She fancies him, so he should be in the team.
tony d
02-12-2006, 06:18 PM
So what you are saying is that if you are not a winning side you are a shite manager..
In that case every manager bar around 20 are crap and unable to motivate their teams...
No matter what players they have in your view the manager should be able to get that team playing champagne football..
Now thats funny...
If the players decide on the day to get stuck in and battle for 90 mins they will, if they decide they cannot be arsed they wont be...
Doesnt matter what the manager does they will be crap aka Chelsea against Boro.. An unbeatable side against a crap one...Boro still played crap yet looked giants against a team who couldnt be arsed...Could the great one motivate his team could he fook...
Its al about if they can be arsed...Once the instructions are out and the players play it is them and them alone who realistically dictate the way a game goes...
A manager can only shout out instructions which most players ignore...Then he has around 7 mins during half time to speak his mind...If they want to the players can screw the nut if not we get more shite...
Now if we had a great bench to call on things could happen but we dont ...So the same team picks itself really and performances depend on how those 3 or 4 poor players in the team get on...
Thed reason Penford plays the holding role is because others in the team cannot ..Kearney has been crap all season...Other positions are the same...
Without the ability to change the squad with new players how can you change our luck..
Answer is in front of you weak in weak out...You cannot..We have half a squad ...Until that is sorted it doesnt matter if Bill Shankly rose from the grave and took us on the performances would be the same...
Now twist which ever part of that you want... But thats the way it is...
Btw the dejan stefanovich thing is embarressing for him in my opinion...As a fan i would hate the slack arse git...How long before he cannot be bothered for Rednap??? WHAT A WASTER...
Parrot
02-12-2006, 06:34 PM
I'd bet my mortgage that If Phil Parkinson or Martin Allen had swapped places with CT at the start of the season we'd probably be in their position now, the league is full of average teams, average players but the teams near the top are the ones who's managers can squeeze that little bit extra out of the team, sadly CT cannot!:mad:
king billy
02-12-2006, 06:49 PM
At the end of the day if any manager don't get his "troops" to perform - at any level, doing any job (especially when he brought the personel in, in the first place) he has to go, at any level its as pure and simple as that IMO.....
tony d
02-12-2006, 06:51 PM
At the end of the day if any manager don't get his "troops" to perform - at any level, doing any job (especially when he brought the personel in, in the first place) he has to go, at any level its as pure and simple as that IMO.....
His players are performing though KB... Or did i write that list in Arabic for you???
Wicker Man
02-12-2006, 06:56 PM
I'd bet my mortgage that If Phil Parkinson or Martin Allen had swapped places with CT at the start of the season we'd probably be in their position now, the league is full of average teams, average players but the teams near the top are the ones who's managers can squeeze that little bit extra out of the team, sadly CT cannot!
agree, its all about commitment and effort. the only player that gives some - cooke - gets dropped and treated like shit by todd. great man management and what a signal to send out.
also some amendments to t's list:
signed and did/doing well:
ricketts
Hendo
stew peas
MBW
Cooke
Crooks
Signed and usless/left:
Petta
Claridge
Howarth
Schuey
Horrorshow
Muirhead
Caddz
Tierney
Abbey
Armstrong
Symes
Already here:
Bower
Weathers
Windass
Penford
Not given a chance:
Wright
Swift
Forest
Colbeck
Mani
tescos
Bottom line is todd can't motivate to save his life, players give no commmitment and this aint on
king billy
02-12-2006, 06:59 PM
His players are performing though KB... Or did i write that list in Arabic for you???
They aint performing though are they?....too much inconsistancy, we know what most of em can do, because they've all shown flashes of it....if you were responsible for recruiting your underlings Sarge - and they didn't do their job, what do you think your superior officers would do?
tony d
02-12-2006, 07:03 PM
They aint performing though are they?....too much inconsistancy, we know what most of em can do, because they've all shown flashes of it....if you were responsible for recruiting your underlings Sarge - and they didn't do their job, what do you think your superior officers would do?
Wouldnt ever hapen that Matty lad blokes work for me.. The ones who dont get shipped out.. I dont take slackers... Unfortunately Todd doesnt have that option...
Plus im a bastard when i want to be mate;) :D
king billy
02-12-2006, 07:07 PM
lol......well maybe we need a manager like that then eh?....;)
Parrot
02-12-2006, 07:09 PM
Bottom line is todd can't motivate to save his life, players give no commmitment and this aint on
Too true, look at what happened when Kamara took over from Lawrence, with virtually the same team he got us from 14th position into the top six & promotion at Wembley.
CT fails to motivate or inspire his players anymore, he's like one of those droning teachers you had at school who sent everyone to sleep with boredom, while the best teachers were the ones full of enthusiasm & new ideas!
CTs lost the team:mad:
tony d
02-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Just picture the scene, we are relegated and Todd goes, yet next season players from the team that havent jumped ship turn around and say
"We never gave Todd 100% cos we didnt like him, players couldnt be bothered"
Will that make you happy just cos hes gone...???
Player power is a very bad thing when used in that way...
briggus
02-12-2006, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=tony d]
Thing is people want players playing in all sorts of positions.. Penford got "play him every week hes awesome Todd doesnt know what he is doing"
All after one decent game..Hes now nothing special at all and no better than what we have already...
Deanos was " Play him in midfield to strengthen it up, Todd hasnt got a clue" When he played there he was lazy and uninterested and once again it was Todds fault...
Bowers now is play him on the wings ffs...
The manager picks the best team, he chooses the tactics, the players then go on the pitch and either all decide to play or shirk away.. The players at our club are in the main the real reason for the performances we see week in week out.. Only a few stand out every game as players with passion.
QUOTE]
the thing is a team has to pull together 100% if there's a week link then you've had it. half of the players dont get to play their own position so i'm not suprised if they under perform as that is CTs fault as well as playing a defensive game. Penford is a C-midfielder but has been playing a more defensive role in the last few games. the first game he played (about 5 back) was the one with his most involvement where his skill shone through and that was because he was playing HIS position. since then he's been quieter cos CTs put him in the defensive role -- at least he gets the ball to where it needs to be 99% of the time.
decisions like that i put down to management.
city should practice for better passing and spatial awareness with set moves. if the players are in a position to move them out of it does cause disruption and that is unfortunately what CT does and thats why the lads lack confidence and gusto.
I agree about - Penford - he should be given more games - out of the midfielders - he is the one who will always try and play the ball forward - how novel is that! Some of his chips over the defence are a breath of fresh air - its up to the strikers to anticipate and get on the end of them and putting them away. He is hardly the finished article and is bound to make some errors - but give him chance to get some games and learn from them.
Cadders with his pace should be practising timing his runs and geting behind the oppostion defence. At the moment he is just running across or at an angle from deep. Davison an ex forward should be coaching/working him extra harder.
jimmy
02-12-2006, 08:33 PM
Have i missed something here? I dont know what all the fuss is about.When we get relegated at the end of the season,Todd will have the best squad on paper in League 2.Know doubt Todd will rip that sheet of paper up and we can look forward to playing are old Local Derby with Halifax.
Just picture the scene, we are relegated and Todd goes, yet next season players from the team that havent jumped ship turn around and say
"We never gave Todd 100% cos we didnt like him, players couldnt be bothered"
Will that make you happy just cos hes gone...???
Player power is a very bad thing when used in that way...
no it will not make me happy, I am a City Fan, and I never want to lose no matter who the manager is. Why on earth do you think that people on here who think Todd should go because he is useless, also think that players should not give their all...................no supporter I have ever known at City wants their players to put in half a performance, whether they are at odds with the manager or not.
I am not happy with some of the players performance this season, I am not happy that our club is continually teetering on the edge of extinction either, and I am certainly not happy with the manager this season, who presents both on and off the field like he couldn't give a toss. I felt I needed to explain that; I would hate their to be any misunderstanding; I do hope that is clear.
tony d
02-12-2006, 10:47 PM
I am not happy with some of the players performance this season, I am not happy that our club is continually teetering on the edge of extinction either, and I am certainly not happy with the manager this season, who presents both on and off the field like he couldn't give a toss. I felt I needed to explain that; I would hate their to be any misunderstanding; I do hope that is clear.
But i dont here you calling for those players to be booted out of the club!!!
Anyway i wasnt aware that was aimed at you?????
It wasnt and im sure you can now see that clearly:rolleyes: :p
the roll call at the end of season for players to go, will be the time to boot them out and I do have a list, right now they have a contract they cannot be sacked, and nobody else wants them, so no point in whinging on about players not performing.
didn't think it was aimed at me in particular, just thought I would reply if that is ok with you Sgt Major? shall I polish your boots with my tongue now, or will the morning do? Then I am sure you will be able to see yourself very clearly in your boots:D;)
tony d
02-12-2006, 11:05 PM
the roll call at the end of season for players to go, will be the time to boot them out and I do have a list, right now they have a contract they cannot be sacked, and nobody else wants them, so no point in whinging on about players not performing.
Forgive me if im wrong here but players can be released from their contracts as well..
It would cost less to release some of the dead woood and replace it with loan players than it would be to ship Todd from his contract at the moment..
As for the no point whinging at under performing players...Well that realy does say it all for me...
Cheers for that one BG/.:D :p
only by mutual agreement would be my take on that one.
You can whinge if you like, but I don't see the point, unless it is in the club's power to get rid.............and I don't think they can, you can't just dump contracts unless both parties agree.
paying them off is not an option, as we don't have the money, so they have to stay until their contract is up: and it would seem that Todd is in the same bracket, although in my view if we get relegated the financial meltdown is much more expensive than getting rid of an underperforming manager. Getting rid of players is much more expensive and we do not have the wherewithall to replace them.
tony d
02-12-2006, 11:13 PM
How can getting rid of players out of contract at the end of the season be more expensive than sacking a manager with a contract..
BTW it hasnt stopped you moaning about CT oh Mrs double standards has it..
Players not performing is far worse in my book for a team like ours with no real back up...
Although i see your point as for the doom and gloomers it makes it nice and simple to ignore that and go for the manager instead, whilst these same players steal their wages week in wek out...:mad:
How can getting rid of players out of contract at the end of the season be more expensive than sacking a manager with a contract..
BTW it hasnt stopped you moaning about CT oh Mrs double standards has it..
Players not performing is far worse in my book for a team like ours with no real back up...
Although i see your point as for the doom and gloomers it makes it nice and simple to ignore that and go for the manager instead, whilst these same players steal their wages week in wek out...:mad:
well it is a straight forward maths answer really, there are more players to get rid of, therefore more money, therefore more need replacing. Plus you can play a game a football without a manager, but not without players good or not.
I personally do not think that the majority of players are not peforming because they cannot be arsed, it is because they need a good coach and are skill limited and therefore cannot do what Todd requires of them. They are not those players who can play in different positions. Know your players is also another good strait that good managers have and those that don't blame the players for not coming up with the goods. Bit like asking you to do my job and me to do yours, yes I would make a good crack at it, but I would not be as good as the one I am doing now, and vice versa.....
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