Hey Gringos!!!!!

[Jantje]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sportbcfc/sportbcfcheadlines/3200474.Mexican_link_up_for_City_/

Where does this leave the Montegnee partnership?

[Kop Kred]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sportbcfc/sportbcfcheadlines/3200474.Mexican_link_up_for_City_/

Where does this leave the Montegnee partnership?


Lawn admitted: “Things aren’t going as well as we would have expected them to be.(Montegnee) The quality of the lads that have come over is not what we had hoped.”


That reads like a put down to Montegnee doesn't it?..

I understood from both sides that we wouldn't see any real dividends for a couple of seasons, so who have they been sending over?

I hope it's not just Lawn chewing his ankle again?:confused:

[Yeadon Bantam]

Im sure its a good thing! Maybe Paul topping is part of it in a distant way?

The montegnee partnership will still be intact IMO and still play its part.

[Zonnebloem]

If they're interested in a tie-up with Mexico, why are they flying to SOUTH America? Mexico is in NORTH America.

It certainly does sound like a put-down for Montegnée.

[Kop Kred]

If they're interested in a tie-up with Mexico, why are they flying to SOUTH America? Mexico is in NORTH America.

It certainly does sound like a put-down for Montegnée.

Mexico is in Central America isn't it?

[Yeadon Bantam]

What have Montegnee done wrong?

As said above they said it would take a few years for anything to materialise!

[Dr Wisey]

Nothing's certain - where's the money going to come from for City to really make a big impact in Mexico - unless it all hinges on this link up with an unamed club over there.

[Dr Wisey]

But if the people out there are paying for the 5 day jaunt then hey ho get on the plane lads - enjoy the Burrito's!

[Kop Kred]

Nothing's certain - where's the money going to come from for City to really make a big impact in Mexico - unless it all hinges on this link up with an unamed club over there.

We'll make the money by selling guns to Santa Anna...

"REMEMBER THE ALAMO!"

[Kop Kred]

I wonder if Chuckles is watching... he'll have a field day with this one.

[Jantje]

Can just see Lawn making a run for the Border with the Federales after him!!!!

Seriously though, surely this set up will have more problems with work permits and immigration problems than the Montegnee st up which is EU based?

[Kop Kred]

Can just see Lawn making a run for the Border with the Federales after him!!!!

Seriously though, surely this set up will have more problems with work permits and immigration problems than the Montegnee st up which is EU based?

My thoughts exactly... It tastes of trying to find a get-out from Montegnee to me.

[Mallorcabantam]

All this global searching for talent -- City should be having a look in the parks of their own city

[Kop Kred]

All this global searching for talent -- City should be having a look in the parks of their own city

Why??... to find some old alcoholic hobos??...

oh yeah... Barry Conlon... I forgot.

;)

[Jantje]

All this global searching for talent -- City should be having a look in the parks of their own city

I agree in a way Mally. The logistics of this whole thing seem way out of our league. It might be ok for a Juventus or Real Madrid butwhen Lawn turns up with 3 Mexican kids at the Immigration, the y will laugh their arses off.
Thats before the PFA and Home office get involved

[Kop Kred]

I hear that Lawn, Baldwin, Julian, McCall, Jacobs, Ellis and Wendy Kestin are all going to save a village from being overrun by bandits.

[beerbantam]

I hear that Lawn, Baldwin, Julian, McCall, Jacobs, Ellis and Wendy Kestin are all going to save a village from being overrun by bandits.

They are going to save Clayton from the Taliban?:eek:

[Mallorcabantam]

I hear that Lawn, Baldwin, Julian, McCall, Jacobs, Ellis and Wendy Kestin are all going to save a village from being overrun by bandits.

Its good of those seven to do that -- quite magnificent


:D

[Kop Kred]

They are going to save Clayton from the Taliban?:eek:


jump:jump:jump:

[Zonnebloem]

Mexico is in North America and Central America starts on its south border.

This sounds more like a free holiday for ML and Baldwin. A small outfit like Bradford City cannot possibly manage all the procedures and formalities of managing a venture like this.

The Montegnée deal was described in detail in the Paul Topping interview. The point was to take advantage of Belgium's easier immigration and naturalisation laws to bring in talent from all over the world, through a global network of scouts.

I remember in economics courses being given the example of corn flakes manufacturers. Even Kelloggs can't deal with all aspects of corn flake production, growing cereals, sugar, vitamins, processing and distribution. You need a chain of production of raw materials and distribution through individual growers, wholesalers and retailers.

Similarly, Bradford City FC (League Division 4) can't undertake this sort of thing alone.

By the way. I've been to Mexico City and it took me weeks to recover from the asthma attacks caused by the appalling polluted air. Very dangerous place too. You're not even safe from taxis and must only take authorised ones. And Immodium extra strength could not cure the galloping trots, needing medical attention and an injection.

[Kop Kred]

Mexico is in North America and Central America starts on its south border.

This sounds more like a free holiday for ML and Baldwin. A small outfit like Bradford City cannot possibly manage all the procedures and formalities of managing a venture like this.

The Montegnée deal was described in detail in the Paul Topping interview. The point was to take advantage of Belgium's easier immigration and naturalisation laws to bring in talent from all over the world, through a global network of scouts.

I remember in economics courses being given the example of corn flakes manufacturers. Even Kelloggs can't deal with all aspects of corn flake production, growing cereals, sugar, vitamins, processing and distribution. You need a chain of production of raw materials and distribution through individual growers, wholesalers and retailers.

Similarly, Bradford City FC (League Division 4) can't undertake this sort of thing alone.

By the way. I've been to Mexico City and it took me weeks to recover from the asthma attacks caused by the appalling polluted air. Very dangerous place too. You're not even safe from taxis and must only take authorised ones. And Immodium extra strength could not cure the galloping trots, needing medical attention and an injection.

Can't you get Pauls angle on this? :)

[Jantje]

Can't you get Pauls angle on this? :)

And maybe Baldy might enlighten us from Citys point of view:confused:

[Superfatbantam]

Can't you get Pauls angle on this? :)

I doubt it, he has been silenced by the mexican mafia we have enlisted at Valleeee Parados!

And maybe Baldy might enlighten us from Citys point of view:confused:

Unlikely, this is all part of the second richmondesque master-plan! :eek:

[Sleepless in settle]

Zonnebloom when did you go to mexico city? have things improved lately here like accross much of south and central america given the increased volume of tourism to these places.

I have been to the favelas of Rio, and stayed in central sao paulo, admittedly they are not mexico city but they are reputed to be among the most dangerous places in south america and I found them nothing less than reasonable places with great community spirit, a generally happier lifestyle and not unsafe at all.

Pretty sure modern day south, central and lower north america are much safer than most imagine! Sadly I found a lot of it full off toffie nosed public school eductaed British Teenagers and a shockingly large amount of Isreali's who had finished military service .

I don't think our staff are in danger by this link up, if that was in anyway the subtext of your comment.

[jonny2201]

get paul toopping on ere we need re assuring :D

[peter beagrie is mint]

Why Belgium and now Mexico?
Surely it would be easier and more profitable doing such schemes in Italy or Spain.

[Superfatbantam]

Why Belgium and now Mexico:confused:
Surely it would be easier and more profitable doing such schemes in Italy or Spain.

Where've you been? :D

The belgian deal has been up and running since last year.

And seeing as Italy and Spain are second and third behind England for decent leagues it would be a tad costly I imagine to have a link up scheme there.

belgium also allows something to do with EU passports or citizenship etc which means non-european players can be fast-tracked through there to qualify to play in Europe rather than need work permits etc, methinks. Read the Montegnee stuff and Zonnebloem's and Dutch's interviews with Topping. You may be enlightened.

[Zonnebloem]

Zonnebloom when did you go to mexico city? have things improved lately here like accross much of south and central america given the increased volume of tourism to these places.

I have been to the favelas of Rio, and stayed in central sao paulo, admittedly they are not mexico city but they are reputed to be among the most dangerous places in south america and I found them nothing less than reasonable places with great community spirit, a generally happier lifestyle and not unsafe at all.

Pretty sure modern day south, central and lower north america are much safer than most imagine! Sadly I found a lot of it full off toffie nosed public school eductaed British Teenagers and a shockingly large amount of Isreali's who had finished military service .

I don't think our staff are in danger by this link up, if that was in anyway the subtext of your comment.


I was in Mexico City in (I think) either 1999 or 2000. The air looked clear enough but my breathing got worse and worse. The Duovent puffer spray became essential. People I met working there said they could only stay for a limited cycle, needing to move on after a couple of years for a change of air. I can't think it's a healthy place for a football academy.

Hotel staff urged us not to go out at night and to dress scruffy with no credit cards on us. "Bandidos". I was in a brand new (at the time) Japanese hotel, whose name escapes me. On a bus ride out to the pyramids at Teotihuacan http://www.mexperience.com/guide/archaeology/teotihuacan.htm the bus passed hillsides of corrugated huts. I forget how many millions were living there.

I was advised that I should get a taxi voucher at a ticket office just as you come out of immigration and take the official yellow taxi. There were a lot of green VW Beetle taxis about and these were to be avoided, they said.

[Jantje]

Why Belgium and now Mexico?
Surely it would be easier and more profitable doing such schemes in Italy or Spain.

Belgium has very easy EU qualification laws and rules, the Mexican thing is puzzling to me.

[Kop Kred]

"Going loco down in Acapulco...."

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2510/lawnka7.jpg

[Edwin Fitzgerald]

Well this is quite worrying for me. It looks as is ML lacks the patience needed for the Montegnee link, and is trying for another venture when quite clearly the 'couple of years' before anything would probably materialise have not passed.
Lets not forget that Topp was recommended from the same people involved with the Montegnee link, and i'm sure in a few years time more players of a similar calibre could be brought to city from this. After all, Montegnee is still developing.

[Edwin Fitzgerald]

Maybe Lawn and Topping have had a spat?... not that Lawn is known for such things.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
It somehow wouldn't surprise me.
After all; PT has seemingly stopped posting on here, where before he was up for answering questions and giving interviews.

It's a shame if true; the link always seemed promising to me.

[Edwin Fitzgerald]

That's strange... why did my post go above yours ??

[Kop Kred]

Well this is quite worrying for me. It looks as is ML lacks the patience needed for the Montegnee link, and is trying for another venture when quite clearly the 'couple of years' before anything would probably materialise have not passed.
Lets not forget that Topp was recommended from the same people involved with the Montegnee link, and i'm sure in a few years time more players of a similar calibre could be brought to city from this. After all, Montegnee is still developing.

Maybe Lawn and Topping have had a spat?... not that Lawn is known for such things.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Zonnebloem]

I've just had a long chat with Paul Topping. He is surprised by the quote from Mark Lawn.

I have heard about 3 or 4 quality teenagers signed by Montegnée, including a full internationals still in his teens, their performances in friendlies so far in pre-season, offers of players to City, financial arrangements and other stuff but I'm not going to meddle in the details here. I always understood this was going to be a medium to long term arrangement and that instant results were never to be expected.

I think Paul will be reading this soon.

[Kop Kred]

I've just had a long chat with Paul Topping. He is surprised by the quote from Mark Lawn.

I have heard about 3 or 4 quality teenagers signed by Montegnée, including a full internationals still in his teens, their performances in friendlies so far in pre-season, offers of players to City, financial arrangements and other stuff but I'm not going to meddle in the details here. I always understood this was going to be a medium to long term arrangement and that instant results were never to be expected.

I think Paul will be reading this soon.


It's all probably what I said at the top... ML=foot in mouth... not that he's known for such things..:rolleyes:

[Jamaica Love]

Seriously though, surely this set up will have more problems with work permits and immigration problems than the Montegnee st up which is EU based?

This is super true any young kid will not have a chance of a WP in the UK. Lets bear in mind that the Don could not even get back in even being Jamaicas No 1 and under contract, what chance does an uncapped gringo have????

Enjoy the free flights boys.....:):):)....A free holiday is always welcome eh?


Unlikely, this is all part of the second richmondesque master-plan! :eek:

I have told you once and i will tell you again, its only a matter of time until He pulls of his Mask and GR is revealed underneath.....personally i welcome the day!! Bring it on Fat Controller

[Tallinnbantam]

I hear that Lawn, Baldwin, Julian, McCall, Jacobs, Ellis and Wendy Kestin are all going to save a village from being overrun by bandits.


http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images/the-three-amigos-salute1.jpeg

Lawn and Baldwin visit Mexico. Willy Topp (far right) has been brought along as translator.

[Northern]

I thought one of the main reasons for the link up with Montegnee was as a kind of half way house to get around work permit situations (i.e. playing for an EU club for 3 years). Like Adie says, we were told from day one that any deals from the Montegnee link-up would take a while. I honestly don't get it, has Lawn just lost patience and ended up opening his mouth without thinking again? If PT is suprised by the quote it seems like that is the case!

[Superfatbantam]

I thought one of the main reasons for the link up with Montegnee was as a kind of half way house to get around work permit situations (i.e. playing for an EU club for 3 years). Like Adie says, we were told from day one that any deals from the Montegnee link-up would take a while. I honestly don't get it, has Lawn just lost patience and ended up opening his mouth without thinking again? If PT is suprised by the quote it seems like that is the case!

http://www.twinsdays.org/geauga_lake/surprise.gif

[Kop Kred]

I thought one of the main reasons for the link up with Montegnee was as a kind of half way house to get around work permit situations (i.e. playing for an EU club for 3 years). Like Adie says, we were told from day one that any deals from the Montegnee link-up would take a while. I honestly don't get it, has Lawn just lost patience and ended up opening his mouth without thinking again? If PT is suprised by the quote it seems like that is the case!


didn't I already say that above??

I think you've been locked in that dark, damp mods room too long already!
;)

[Zonnebloem]

I thought one of the main reasons for the link up with Montegnee was as a kind of half way house to get around work permit situations (i.e. playing for an EU club for 3 years). Like Adie says, we were told from day one that any deals from the Montegnee link-up would take a while. I honestly don't get it, has Lawn just lost patience and ended up opening his mouth without thinking again? If PT is suprised by the quote it seems like that is the case!


Various bits quoted from T&A.

“The school, which has a fairly high-quality clientele, have just bought some land to put two or three pitches on and they are paying for me and David to go and have a look. If all goes well, we could be looking at a fairly quick move to set things up." Important that THEY are paying for the trip. It wouldn't look good to be spending scarce BCFC resources on this. By high-quality clientèle, I understand "rich". Rich daddies paying for their kids to play. But don't justify the trip by appearing to criticise an existing business arrangement.

Any move to develop in South America in the future could cast a doubt over City’s current link-up with Royal Racing FC Montegnee in Belgium.
City had hoped to use the Liege club as a production line for bringing through young talent from around the world but so far they have been disappointed with the lack of results.
Lawn admitted: “Things aren’t going as well as we would have expected them to be. The quality of the lads that have come over is not what we had hoped.”

Simon Parker changed the 1st paragraph of the article from South America to Central America but did not change this one. Still wrong though as Mexico is in North America and this is poor journalism. There are very few European passport holders in Mexico so any discoveries will be unable to come work in Europe unless they are already full internationals. Would they then come to Bradford City? I thought everybody had understood this was a 3 year contract with results expected by the end of it, when recruits had gained European citizenship in Belgium.

I don't really expect Paul Topping to comment on here but I wouldn't be surprised if he would like a clarification from the club.


Edit: Sorry to repeat some points already made above. They hadn't yet been made when I started composing this message and the phone interrupted my flow.

[Superfatbantam]

Lawn doesn't engage brain before mouth or maybe he does and something gets lost in translation! It would have made far better sense to make a public asurance that the arrangements with Montegnee are ongoing and that whilst we haven't had the best batch of youngsters coming across from there we always knew it would take some time before we could realise the fruits of this exercise.

It aint hard this PR stuff! :rolleyes:

[Dr Wisey]

Listen, would you turn down the offer of a free 5 day trip to Mexico?
Don't worry about a ting man
I think GB is behind all of this - all them Mexican Beers he drinks and the Limes - I bet he's going along with this Amsterdam talk all a load of rollocks.
At least someone is staying behind at VP to keep shop - you know that quiet guy who has been there years now ermmmmmmm

[Mallorcabantam]

I thought one of the main reasons for the link up with Montegnee was as a kind of half way house to get around work permit situations (i.e. playing for an EU club for 3 years). Like Adie says, we were told from day one that any deals from the Montegnee link-up would take a while. I honestly don't get it, has Lawn just lost patience and ended up opening his mouth without thinking again? If PT is suprised by the quote it seems like that is the case!

He is your typical Bradford city supporter -- but he has done well -- many supporter's of City lose patience as soon as a player has been known to have signed for the team ;)

[Zonnebloem]

The thread title is good but hides a more serious subject underneath.

Perhaps Mark Lawn could contextualise (oof!) his comments about Montegnée and recognise that it is a 3 year contract. It involves a revolving programme of bringing in talented young players from all over the world to Belgium, while they obtain their EU citizenship according to Belgium's favourable naturalisation laws taking 3 years.

So it is hardly surprising that positive results are not yet forthcoming, after just a few months of signing the agreement. The obtention of EU citizenship within a minimum period of time (3 years) was the whole point of the deal.

However, an additional dimension to the deal could be overseas players unearthed by Montegnée's scouting network who are already EU passport holders and therefore eligible to play Now.

I doubt if they are to be found in Mexico. There are very few EU passport holders in Mexico. So what is the advantage of fishing in Mexico when there is no chance of getting players through work permits and immigration requirements, unless they are already internationals? In which case, why would they go to a Division 4 club in England?

A little statement about future prospects for the deal would be welcome, as would news of the latest crop of young international players signed up for RRFC Montegnée for the new season who ALREADY have European passports.

If both parties uphold their part of the deal, there can only be winners. It would be a crying shame to miss out on golden opportunities staring us right in the face, now.

[Tallinnbantam]

This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about a couple of months ago, when I said its all gone quiet from Montegnee. Why weren't we kept up to date by the club about players being sent over to us etc etc? Totally agree with Zonne that all is needed is a statement of intent from the club.

It all seems very strange to me. It was quoted as saying that Paul Topping has a supposed scouting network all over America (North, Central and South), so why the link up with a Mexican club at all?

[Superfatbantam]

This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about a couple of months ago, when I said its all gone quiet from Montegnee. Why weren't we kept up to date by the club about players being sent over to us etc etc? Totally agree with Zonne that all is needed is a statement of intent from the club.

It all seems very strange to me. It was quoted as saying that Paul Topping has a supposed scouting network all over America (North, Central and South), so why the link up with a Mexican club at all?

Becasue the Club doesn't feel it is accountable to the fans nor is it intent on keeping the fans informed when the news doesn't suit. That's the way it is. Why would the Club come out and say the deal is not working or criticise it when there is no other alternative. In any event I would imagine there are things that are not in the public domain that would suggest that we are seeing only the smallest part of this whole affair. I don't agree with the way Lawn has commented on the Montegnee deal and I am appalled at his impatience, when he knew all along it was a 3 year deal with an aim to seeing the benfits towards the back end of the deal.

The Mexican thing just sounds like a free jolly for ML and DB, woith potentially some scouting links being set up. I cannot see how a link up like the Montegnee deal is viable or feasible.

[Jantje]

Becasue the Club doesn't feel it is accountable to the fans nor is it intent on keeping the fans informed when the news doesn't suit. That's the way it is. Why would the Club come out and say the deal is not working or criticise it when there is no other alternative. In any event I can imagine there are things that are not in the public domain that would suggest that we are seeing only the smallest part of this whole affair. I don't agree with the way Lawn has commented on the Montegnee deal and I am appalled at his impatience, when he knew all along it was a 3 year deal with an aim to seeing the benfits towards the back end of the deal.

The Mexican thing just sounds like a free jolly for ML and DB, woith potentially some scouting links being set up. I cannot see how a link up like the Montegnee deal is viable or feasible.


Agree totally, i don't see this link up providing anything that Montegnee can't . Montegnee have the benefit of being EU based as mentioned.

In thee interviews with Dutch & Zonne , Paul Topping said that Montegnee project wasn't the finished article and i can imagine he's a little peeved and upset at Lawns statements. Everyone knew about the 3 years to provide results timescale so why has Lawn come out with this?

[DutchBantam]

Montegnee has only been under Paul Topping for a year and a bit. In that time he's had to clear all the crap out, has built a university, built an international school, brought in top new coaches, linked up with partners all accross the globe and now for next season has already got a load of young potentially great kids (jr and sr internationals all u21 years old) on his books.
He has helped out with certain things for City itself, has sent over Willy Topp and while the others he has sent over have not made the grade at City, some of them were actually good enough but not what Macca needed whilst others Paul had already told City they were not good enough.
There have been quite a few others linked with City (or even very close to signing) who have gone on to be sold for 1-2 million or gone on free transfers to clubs where they are on 10-20k a week.

What more do City expect ?? ?? ??

There is much more to be said about this all but I shall keep my trap shut now and hopefully let some proper news come out of the right sources.

I would say one thing, if City want a link up in Mexico they they should be doing this alongside Montgnee as opposed to instead of. Because the only way City are going to maximise a Mexico link is with the aid of the Belgian loopholes.

[Mallorcabantam]

Montegnee has only been under Paul Topping for a year and a bit. In that time he's had to clear all the crap out, has built a university, built an international school, brought in top new coaches, linked up with partners all accross the globe and now for next season has already got a load of young potentially great kids (jr and sr internationals all u21 years old) on his books.
He has helped out with certain things for City itself, has sent over Willy Topp and while the others he has sent over have not made the grade at City, some of them were actually good enough but not what Macca needed whilst others Paul had already told City they were not good enough.
There have been quite a few others linked with City (or even very close to signing) who have gone on to be sold for 1-2 million or gone on free transfers to clubs where they are on 10-20k a week.

What more do City expect ?? ?? ??

There is much more to be said about this all but I shall keep my trap shut now and hopefully let some proper news come out of the right sources.

I would say one thing, if City want a link up in Mexico they they should be doing this alongside Montgnee as opposed to instead of. Because the only way City are going to maximise a Mexico link is with the aid of the Belgian loopholes.

Yep!

[briggus]

Montegnee has only been under Paul Topping for a year and a bit. In that time he's had to clear all the crap out, has built a university, built an international school, brought in top new coaches, linked up with partners all accross the globe and now for next season has already got a load of young potentially great kids (jr and sr internationals all u21 years old) on his books.
He has helped out with certain things for City itself, has sent over Willy Topp and while the others he has sent over have not made the grade at City, some of them were actually good enough but not what Macca needed whilst others Paul had already told City they were not good enough.
There have been quite a few others linked with City (or even very close to signing) who have gone on to be sold for 1-2 million or gone on free transfers to clubs where they are on 10-20k a week.

What more do City expect ?? ?? ??

There is much more to be said about this all but I shall keep my trap shut now and hopefully let some proper news come out of the right sources.

I would say one thing, if City want a link up in Mexico they they should be doing this alongside Montgnee as opposed to instead of. Because the only way City are going to maximise a Mexico link is with the aid of the Belgian loopholes.

May be Dutch - they are looking at whether this can be an additional feeder to Montgnee - exploring it before discussing with Paul Topping.

[Superfatbantam]

May be Dutch - they are looking at whether this can be an additional feeder to Montgnee - exploring it before discussing with Paul Topping.

Then it is rather unfortunate the way Mr Lawn has presented it to the media wrapped up in a critical swipe at the Montegnee deal! :rolleyes:

[Jamaica Love]

Then it is rather unfortunate the way Mr Richmond has presented it to the media wrapped up in a critical swipe at the Montegnee deal! :rolleyes:
Corrected that for you SFB..........

[Bantam Of The Opera]

Any more news from Paul Topping for this one.

I see they are having a mixed pre-season; it would be a shame if this fell through especially after they have restructured the club and recruited the players they want. It would be nice if Paul would let us know what’s happening after Lawns comments and if the deal is to be scrapped.

[Dr Wisey]

Oh it's all gone quiet everywhere
Oh it's all gone quiet everywhere

About right for City.