TIME for Macca to go

[ernie06]

He is inexperienced , ill informed and onto a hiding for nothing

Time to go time to go time to goooooooo.

We are conference bound - AND YOU ALL KNOW IT.

Face the facts and accept the future is not GINGER - IT is conference coloured.

[fritter]

He doesn't need to go - he just needs to fucking criticise players when they need criticising.

[Jamaica Love]

Face the facts and accept the future is not GINGER - IT is conference coloured.
so blue then????

[beerbantam]

so blue then????

I thought the conference was green?

[Ricc]

Macca should go?

are you kidding me, there's only been 10 games!!

[panther]

I thought the conference was green?

nah thats pears or apples... :sorry: :ban:

[baldbantam]

If this wasn't Stuart McCall at Bradford City then rightly or wrongly the results thus far would be seeing him very close to the sack. The recent managerial casualties at other clubs have had comparable records.

I wonder how much grace McCall has if results continue in the same vein?

[panther]

I wonder how much grace McCall has if results continue in the same vein?

Do you know what I think, I think like beaks, macca will have all the time he needs irrelevant of results because it wont be him the crowd turn on !

[beerbantam]

Do you know what I think, I think like beaks, macca will have all the time he needs irrelevant of results because it wont be him the crowd turn on !

It should be the players!!:rolleyes:

[baldbantam]

Do you know what I think, I think like beaks, macca will have all the time he needs irrelevant of results because it wont be him the crowd turn on !

As far as the crowd are concerned, maybe. Although eventually they will turn as well.

But it's not the crowd who will ultimately make the decision. And no manager's job is irrelevant of results.

[Jamaica Love]

irrelevant of results!
As baldy quite rightly points out this is simply not the case (its like a salesman saying he does not have to sell anything????).....come 20 games and we are still in the same position then unforunately i will be expecting a change!

[beerbantam]

As far as the crowd are concerned, maybe. Although eventually they will turn as well.

But it's not the crowd who will ultimately make the decision. And no manager's job is irrelevant of results.


It will be turned round after we hammer Morcambe on Friday!!


However i will say - McCalls more likely to quit before getting the push imo!!
(assuming the slide continued)

[Dr Wisey]

I thought we were playing them on Friday night??????

[beerbantam]

I thought we were playing them on Friday night??????

We are Wisey, Why?tup:

[Blackpool800]

Again Rhodesie hides behind the managerial joker card.

It would not make one bit of difference if he went.

Admitidley he has made some mistakes but what did we expect but where he has let himself down is not coming clean about the transfer budget. It is obvious the board have back tracked on the figures, you only need to look at the dung we have shifted in........."higher calibre players" if you believe the board!

You can change the backroom staff, change the players but the results will be the same and that is thanks to the folks at the top.

[Parrot]

Only a Idiot would sack a new manager 10 games into a season tdwn:

If we can give Turd 3 years of failure then why should we be judging Macca now?

Give Macca 2-3 years to get it right, then he should be judged, not after 10 games ffs headtap:

[tony d]

Firstly Blackpool You are really Daves clone aren't you..tdwn:


What part of Macca being happy with the squad and stating anything other than promotion is failure did you not get???..

I never would have Macca down as naive in the ways of football or question his love for City..
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Now the only truth out of all this thread is he may be out of his depth..Better men have failed at clubs every where..No shame there for having a go..

But we are 10 games in..

If Man ure had been hasty and sacked Fergie united may never have won everything or been the club they are today..

Same goes for Bolton in Sams earlier struggling days there.. Granted Lee has ffoked it up but you get my point..

Calling for his head at this stage is embarrassing..

Not though as embarrassing as blaming everything on JR's head...So funny it is sad..

To those calling for Maccas job shame on you ffs...

[Jantje]

No way am i calling for his head, its a learning curve for him but when he says that everyone will get a fair chance in the team but then says they need shipping out, its not right.

We are all suffering a crisis of confidence but i want to see him show some balls and drop some of the senior players who, Donovan apart, seem to have been absolved from any blame in this run. Its too easy to drop Nix, Harban etc.

[Blackpool800]

But he is in his first job he doesn't want to rock the boat by spitting his dumby out at having to work with less than what was expected. Surely Tony you must have had a bit of worry when the season started and you saw the signings that had come in.?

I know it's the 64k dollar question but Tony why do you think it is going so wrong?

For a balance of argument of course!

[Gary1975]

He as been in the job 10 games get a fucking grip for fucks sake.

Whats guessing you wanted Jewell out as well :rolleyes:

[ChuckleBantam]

McCall's already admitted in an interview North of the Border that his budget wasn't what he had been told it was. Only an idiot could not or chooses not to see that the goalposts have been moved with regard to player recruitment. Maybe Macca doesn't want to make waves, maybe macca daredn't say anything or maybe, Macca genuinley does think this shower of shit is capable enough to deliver the instant promotion he considers the only option for this season. But the fact he backtracked on his stance on loan signings and is now fielding half a team of loanees, whilst shipping players who we pay the entire salaries of out on loan , coupled with the stuttering Topp affair and the short term deals offered to promising players like Nix and Rhodes says to me that between Macca saying "anything less than promotion will be failiure" and our recent capitulation toward non league, someone has let him down big style.

[wykie]

McCall's already admitted in an interview North of the Border that his budget wasn't what he had been told it was. Only an idiot could not or chooses not to see that the goalposts have been moved with regard to player recruitment. Maybe Macca doesn't want to make waves, maybe macca daredn't say anything or maybe, Macca genuinley does think this shower of shit is capable enough to deliver the instant promotion he considers the only option for this season. But the fact he backtracked on his stance on loan signings and is now fielding half a team of loanees, whilst shipping players who we pay the entire salaries of out on loan , coupled with the stuttering Topp affair and the short term deals offered to promising players like Nix and Rhodes says to me that between Macca saying "anything less than promotion will be failiure" and our recent capitulation toward non league, someone has let him down big style.

Just for clarity can we have a link please.:p

[Gary1975]

It was hear say probably from the mystical SAUCE

[baldbantam]

I'm not calling for his head - yet.

This is not the same situation that Todd was managing under. Whilst I am unsure as to the level of financial backing available, we are not in the immediate aftermath of 2 administrations and going through a period where players wages are not being paid and the club is lurching from one crisis to another.

I don't necessarily think all is rosy at Valley Parade, but the waters are relatively calm at the moment and McCall is the first manager for a long time who can get on with the job without being too concerned with off the field financial distractions.

No doubt we could benefit from spending a bit in January, but I don't honestly believe our squad is any worse than most others at this level. We have international players, ex-Premiership players, ex-Championship players. They may be past their glory days, but there is some pedigree in there, and that's more than you can say for a lot of sides in this division.

I don't think it is capable of seeking promotion at this point in time, but we certainly shouldn't be in the bottom 4 with the squad we have. And that comes down to the manager.

I'm all for giving people longer than 10 games, and I won't be looking for a change of manager until after Christmas. But if we are still in the bottom 4 for any length of time after January then even McCall is vulnerable.

[ChuckleBantam]

Just for clarity can we have a link please.:p

Haven't got time to look, but theres a post on here about it somewhere and if I recall it had a link on it.

Of course the usual apologists jumped on the reporter because Junior wouldn't mislead anybody now, would he??

[Tyneside BCFC]

Over the past few years my worst ever fear was that King Stuart would come back to City as manager and have the crowd turn against him. For me, people calling for Stuart to go are just bloody idiots, the man is a legend FFS and he will get it right. I find it completely insulting that a fella who is BCFC through and through, who is one of us and without doubt the greatest player that i have ever seen and probably the best player we've ever had is having morons criticising him already. 10 games, that's all, 10 bloody games!

Remember when Keegan first went to Newcastle, he hardly had the best start and they only stayed up in the 2nd division (old, old money) by the skin of their teeth, yet the Geordies never turned on him and look what happened. Stuart has never failed at anything, why would that change now?

[Ed]

Haven't got time to look, but theres a post on here about it somewhere and if I recall it had a link on it.

Of course the usual apologists jumped on the reporter because Junior wouldn't mislead anybody now, would he??

I remember the thread and the article and it's not as dry cut as you'd try make people believe in your crusade and obsession with a certain man in the board room.

[baldbantam]

Good players do not necessarily make good managers. It's an entirely different skill set.

I hope it works out with McCall, I really do. And perhaps it will. But if he turns out to be incapable of doing the job then we cannot afford to let sentiment drag us down.

Managers are judged on results, all other things being equal. The results thus far are not encouraging, and 10 games is a long enough period of time to start to get a reflection of capability.

He should be given some time to turn it around, if nothing else because of the effect on club morale if he was to be sacked. But eventually, reality bites.

[ChuckleBantam]

I remember the thread and the article and it's not as dry cut as you'd try make people believe in your crusade and obsession with a certain man in the board room.

It's the bit where it says that McCall admitted to being disappointed with the resources he'd been given that gives it away Edwina.

Typical Rhodes Tints;

An article that says that Stuart is happy with what he's got and won't spend money is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth


Yet


One that says he isn't is all lies.


You deserve to support a football team with one foot in the Conference Ed, you really do!

[Blackpool800]

I think it is the sense of helplesness, people are grabbing out for targets of blame, i suppose i am one of them - with the board.

It feels so bloody wrong him being targeted by some, he has made mistakes for sure but the situation he is working in is less than ideal.

I do genuinely remember the article as well with Macca, honestly! I thought the link was on boyfrombrazil but cannot find it. Would be worth posting on the OMB jump:

[Ed]

It's the bit where it says that McCall admitted to being disappointed with the resources he'd been given that gives it away Edwina.

Typical Rhodes Tints;

An article that says that Stuart is happy with what he's got and won't spend money is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth


Yet


One that says he isn't is all lies.


You deserve to support a football team with one foot in the Conference Ed, you really do!


You mean this Chuckle?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20070617/ai_n19307008


The club have done everything in their power, the chairman didn't just leave it." Next season will see McCall expected to compete in League Two with old pals Terry Butcher at Brentford and Paul Lambert at Wycombe Wanderers not to mention the likes of Darren Ferguson, Bobby Williamson and Paul Ince with a Bradford budget that is not necessarily as big as had been previously hoped.

Stuart never Said anything about it, Rhodes Didn't, Lawn Didn't, The T&A Didn't, The Yorkshire Post Didn't, Look North's Angel of death Sports report said nothing about it ... But some scottish newspaper with no direct quotes did ...

Sure, Believe some paper you've never read in your life - over what Macca said in his fans forum.

[Gary1975]

Was it a direct quote Chucks ?

Or here say ?

From what i remember ?

It said Macca was not happy with the money to spend

not fron the great mans mouth was it just here say

By the way i am not being blinkered and for people to start having a go at Macca after 10 games is fucking stupid

Wait till January and we spend our millions :D

[tony d]

You mean this Chuckle?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20070617/ai_n19307008




Stuart never Said anything about it, Rhodes Didn't, Lawn Didn't, The T&A Didn't, The Yorkshire Post Didn't, Look North's Angel of death Sports report said nothing about it ... But some scottish newspaper with no direct quotes did ...

Sure, Believe some paper you've never read in your life - over what Macca said in his fans forum.

Can you hear the goal posts moving ... Wait for it!!!:chatter::chatter::rolleyes:

[Skyebantam]

calling for Stu's head is ridiculous, my sentiments echo those of Tyneside fully. he needs time and 10 games is a mere drop in the ocean. the predictions of a few seem to be coming true early in the season in that maybe we simply are not good enough and mid tabel would be seen as a great success after recent demotions. we are learning more about the team each week and stu needs our support and maybe we need to lower our lofty expectations which as is being shown, have only led to us being dissapointed. maybe i am the only one who is not shocked by our shaky start this season???

[wykie]

calling for Stu's head is ridiculous, my sentiments echo those of Tyneside fully. he needs time and 10 games is a mere drop in the ocean. the predictions of a few seem to be coming true early in the season in that maybe we simply are not good enough and mid tabel would be seen as a great success after recent demotions. we are learning more about the team each week and stu needs our support and maybe we need to lower our lofty expectations which as is being shown, have only led to us being dissapointed. maybe i am the only one who is not shocked by our shaky start this season???

Our dodgy keeper has been a massive weight to carry. He is now side lined and I for one see us now cracking on and ready to move on up. 10 bleeding games for god sake. Play offs or better this season, easy peasy.jump:

[neversaydie]

I was surprised both centre halves and EJ played against MK.
Also surprised Nix was dropped. We'd already lost against Accy by the time he came on.

[BBB]

TRUST IN MCGOD HE WILL DELIVER !!!!!!!!

[tony d]

TRUST IN MCGOD HE WILL DELIVER !!!!!!!!

What about Fish??

Didn't know you were a jock BBB:confused::eek:

[Edwin Fitzgerald]

It's absolutely barmy to be calling for a manager's head ten games into the season. I've condemned it with Jol in the prem; and i'll condemn anybody who asks for Macca's head on a platter any time before the close of the January transfer window.
As has been said before- it's a steep learning curve.
And we mustn't forget how bad the pool of players left were after Todd's departure. He had very little to work with and came into the job comparatively late.

Time is needed. And money also- oh, crap.

[ernie06]

WHY is it madness?????? - 9 other clubs feel that it is right to remove their managers - who have not performed.

I for one feel for Macca - I did not want him to come here and fail

He is one of my football hero's and will never want him tainted with failure at CITY.

we may have only played 10 games - but by his own standards - they have not been good enough.........

OF course he should be given more time - of course he MAY turn it around - but as we do not know what he is working with behind closed doors - he MAY NOT?????

[ChuckleBantam]

WHY is it madness?????? - 9 other clubs feel that it is right to remove their managers - who have not performed.

I for one feel for Macca - I did not want him to come here and fail

He is one of my football hero's and will never want him tainted with failure at CITY.

we may have only played 10 games - but by his own standards - they have not been good enough.........

OF course he should be given more time - of course he MAY turn it around - but as we do not know what he is working with behind closed doors - he MAY NOT?????


He doesn't deserve the sack after 10 games. As I keep saying till I am blue in the face, it's the circumstances the manager has to work under that's the problem, not the manager himself. It was the same for Todd and it is the same for Stu. Results and performances back this fact up 100%

If Stu just handed in his notice and walked away, he wouldn't lose any respect in fact he'd gain more from me, because it breaks my heart to see someone like Stuart associated with the spiral downwards of this football club, when it's totally out of his control. He was mad to take this job, especially as his first full time managers job becausee outside of Bradford, with other potential employes Stuart will be guilty by association if the terminal rot doesn't stop. I'd hate for Stu's reputation to be sullied by the douchebags that have got Bradford City in this position, because the form book shows, when it comes to sharing the blame, the doors to the Ivory Towers stay firmly locked.

Get out now Stu, whilst your reputation is still intact!!!!

[baldbantam]

He doesn't deserve the sack after 10 games. As I keep saying till I am blue in the face, it's the circumstances the manager has to work under that's the problem, not the manager himself. It was the same for Todd and it is the same for Stu. Results and performances back this fact up 100%


It's not the same for Stu as it was for Todd though.

Things might be tight at Valley Parade, but we aren't, at the moment at least, teetering on the brink of administration with players being unpaid and sold out from under him.

Against a financially uncertain backdrop Todd achieved a finish in 2004/2005 in League One of 11th with 65 points. In 2005/2006 we finished 11th with 61 points. And last season we were on the way to a similar position before any player who was performing was sold/loaned/returned at Christmas. If anything Todd overachieved, and we would still be in League One if Rhodes had had the bottle to keep him on.

We are now a division lower, we are financially stable if perhaps not as rich as we might have been led to believe, and we have a squad that while not worldbeaters has sufficient pedigree to be at least midtable. We have a stadium which is as full for home games as it has been for years, and a pretty solid amount of backing for McCall from the fans. Circumstances are about as favourable for him as he could reasonably ask for, and it's not silly to have an expectation of being above 4th from bottom. If it were Todd in charge instead of McCall then those who are making excuses for him would be busy instead tearing him to pieces for these results in this backdrop.

If we continue to perform at our current level then McCall has to shoulder some of the blame. I'm not a Rhodes fan at all, but just because he is incompetent it doesn't absolve anybody else of any responsibility whatsoever for any facet of our performance.

McCall might not be getting the level of financial backing he was promised, and promotion is, and always was, unrealistic. But even so, he should be getting better results than we have achieved so far with the resources available right at this moment.

[Gary1975]

And last season we were on the way to a similar position before any player who was performing was sold/loaned/returned at Christmas.

How could you tell ?

[baldbantam]

And last season we were on the way to a similar position before any player who was performing was sold/loaned/returned at Christmas.

How could you tell ?

The main reason given for letting Windass/Johnson/Doyle go at that point was that we were already essentially safe. We were on target for a mid/upper table finish prior to them being released.

[ChuckleBantam]

It's not the same for Stu as it was for Todd though.

Things might be tight at Valley Parade, but we aren't, at the moment at least, teetering on the brink of administration with players being unpaid and sold out from under him.

Against a financially uncertain backdrop Todd achieved a finish in 2004/2005 in League One of 11th with 65 points. In 2005/2006 we finished 11th with 61 points. And last season we were on the way to a similar position before any player who was performing was sold/loaned/returned at Christmas. If anything Todd overachieved, and we would still be in League One if Rhodes had had the bottle to keep him on.

We are now a division lower, we are financially stable if perhaps not as rich as we might have been led to believe, and we have a squad that while not worldbeaters has sufficient pedigree to be at least midtable. We have a stadium which is as full for home games as it has been for years, and a pretty solid amount of backing for McCall from the fans. Circumstances are about as favourable for him as he could reasonably ask for, and it's not silly to have an expectation of being above 4th from bottom. If it were Todd in charge instead of McCall then those who are making excuses for him would be busy instead tearing him to pieces for these results in this backdrop.

If we continue to perform at our current level then McCall has to shoulder some of the blame. I'm not a Rhodes fan at all, but just because he is incompetent it doesn't absolve anybody else of any responsibility whatsoever for any facet of our performance.

McCall might not be getting the level of financial backing he was promised, and promotion is, and always was, unrealistic. But even so, he should be getting better results than we have achieved so far with the resources available right at this moment.

Whist I agree that as a business the club is financially slightly more stable since Lawn's arrival. I can't agree that Stu is any better off than Todd when it comes to building a squad. Like Todd and to a lesser extent Law before him, Stu has been told to look for the freebies that require the least wages and to flesh it out with loans and month to months, therefore the fecker's nobody else wants.

I don't see where you get that this squad is at the very least capable of a mid table finish, personally I think it's as shit a squad we have had since....let me see now... the last time a manager at VP was told to build a squad from players barely capable of keeping their head above watter in the non leagues, because that's the cheapest option most acceptable to the upper management of the club!.

Stu is doing his best, with a bag of shit. If you want anything beyond where we are, It's up to Stu to get the tools to achieve this. Lawn and Rhodes thought it was job done with Stu's appointment. This indicates that as usual, we have a board of directors who take the fans as fools, therefore not deserving of our respect or a chance to run this football club.On the other hand, If they really did think that it was job done, then they aren't fit to govern a football league club at all.

It was always my hope that should Stu's side struggle the blame would finally go in the right direction and maybe inspire some action to look towards getting the shit and stagnancy out of the Bradford City boardroom. It seems you haven't quite grasped the concept Baldy. Hinting that the man who's not afraid to hide when things go bad is the cause of the shocking further decline we have seen and endured this season won't help anybody.

Simple fact is, we've been lied to and it appears Stu has been lied to and it's time for such disrespectful behavior to be nipped in the bud!

[Jantje]

Good post Baldy, very accurate summation imo.

My major gripe with Macca is the fact that he may have built fans hopes up too much by saying anything other than promotion would be failure. This was said before signing a player when he had admitted he knew nothing about L2.

Another thing but this goes for a lot of managers is the sometimes puzzling substitutions or lack of subs. This goes for experienced managers also but some of the changes seem baffling. A recent example was taking Thorne off when we were losing then pushing Wetherall upfield, who's more likely to nick a goal, a CF or a CB???

[Gary1975]

So when our disatourous run started did the team not include all the above named

Did the slide not start in early october after our defeat to the Tbs ?

[ChuckleBantam]

My major gripe with Macca is the fact that he may have built fans hopes up too much by saying anything other than promotion would be failure

Ahhh but what if he made that and the no loans statement before he was told that the goalposts were going to be moved with regards to his budget?

Stu's not daft and only anybody fucking retarded wiould bravely say that this shower of shit not getting promotion would be failure.

Something smells fishy Jante....an I'm not talking about the contents of Baldrick's Apple Crumble!!

[baldbantam]

So Chuckle, if this season we get relegated with this squad of players you don't think that any responsibility at all will lie with McCall?

If we don't get another point this season as far as you're concerned it's all because of Rhodes and nothing to do with the day to day management of the team? As far as you're concerned McCall has a free pass regardless of results purely because Rhodes is culpable for everything?

Promotion was always unrealistic, but at the moment McCall is not performing well enough, however correct you may be about Rhodes' incompetence.

[baldbantam]

So when our disatourous run started did the team not include all the above named

Did the slide not start in early october after our defeat to the Tbs ?

When we let Windass et al go we were at that point 12th in the table. I don't think it's unrealistic to say that being 12th midseason means you might reasonably be on course to finish somewhere around 11th, all other things staying equal.

http://www.claretandbanter.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12444

This was posted by tonyd on the 20th of January just after Windass had gone:


We are only two points off last seasons total at this stage and the teams underneath us are on the same as they were last term...

So normal service is here and unless many clubs below us have a massive change of form we will be where we were last term and the one prior...

The next 6 games see us play 5 teams all above us and Brentford so 6-10 points would be a real result.....

This time last year we went on to draw 4 and lose 2 to have 42 points after 35.....

We now have 36 points and i would expect us to have more than 42 by our 35th game....So things are not all bad...

Same old same old....

Season..................League...........Pos.Pld.W ..D.. L...F A Pts
2006/2007 Coca-Cola League One 12th 29 9.. 9..11 33 34 36
2005/2006 Coca Cola League One 11th 46 14 19 13 51 49 61
2004/2005 Coca-Cola League One 11th 46 17 14 15 64 62 65

[Gary1975]

Put it this way we had a GREAT start and after our defeat to the TBs we picked up 10 points from our next 13 games and that was with all the above playing.

Would you not say that our slide towards relegation had already started.

12 or not all the above featured in most of the games and that was a team in poor for form

[Jantje]

Simple fact is, we've been lied to and it appears Stu has been lied to and it's time for such disrespectful behavior to be nipped in the bud!

Why doesn't he walk away reputation intact then. Nobody would blame him, least of all City fans who know what he's done for the club.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the situation but Macca is not blameless when it comes to results. Bobby Moore.......legend, crap manager etc. it doesn't always follow but he is a rookie manager and to his credit he hasn't moaned about the money situation.

JR has told porkies, GR certainly did as did Bob Martin, no doubt Stafford and Tordoff did, it seems to go with the territory

[ChuckleBantam]

So Chuckle, if this season we get relegated with this squad of players you don't think that any responsibility at all will lie with McCall?

.

No. Same way as I regard Colin Todd blameless for the turgid football and eventual relegation from Division 3 (Old Money)

If One of Mclarens Mechanics didn't tighten all the nuts and bolts in Lewis Hamilton's car properley and something fell off halfway round, would you blame Hamilton for not having a machine capable enough of winning the race? Because that's what Stuart has been given something not good enough to do what a lot of people expect him to do, courtesy of the chest beating of people like Mark Lawn.

Theres a famous old quote; Give me the Tools and I will do the Job. At no point since Julian Rhodes took full control of this football club has anybody on the football side of the management team been given the adequate tools. Todd wasn't and now Stuart hasn't. Stuart in his capacity as City legend will doubtless be given more slack than Todd for this, from me for starters, but to say that we are fourth bottom of the whole football league is down to Stuart McCall's management when all you have to do is look at what the poor fucker has to work with day in day out, then your well wide of the mark!

[Jantje]

Ahhh but what if he made that and the no loans statement before he was told that the goalposts were going to be moved with regards to his budget?

Stu's not daft and only anybody fucking retarded wiould bravely say that this shower of shit not getting promotion would be failure.

Something smells fishy Jante....an I'm not talking about the contents of Baldrick's Apple Crumble!!

Agreed, i reckon the goalposts have been moved but nobody has given me a concrete reason why when ticket sales are above what was hoped for in numbers. There should be a substantial fighting fund for Stuart in January and if there isn't thats the time for major questioning of the board

[baldbantam]

Put it this way we had a GREAT start and after our defeat to the TBs we picked up 10 points from our next 13 games and that was with all the above playing.

Would you not say that our slide towards relegation had already started.

12 or not all the above featured in most of the games and that was a team in poor for form

No, not particularly. Over 29 games that team had acquired 36 points. 29 games is long enough to give an average points per game that gives a good indication of what the team is capable of in the long term.

History now anyway. What happened, happened and anything else is speculation. But Todd had proved that he was capable of getting us a midtable finish in League 1 for the two seasons prior and I fully believe he would have achieved round about the same if left in charge with the full team at his disposal.

[baldbantam]

No. Same way as I regard Colin Todd blameless for the turgid football and eventual relegation from Division 3 (Old Money)

If One of Mclarens Mechanics didn't tighten all the nuts and bolts in Lewis Hamilton's car properley and something fell off halfway round, would you blame Hamilton for not having a machine capable enough of winning the race? Because that's what Stuart has been given something not good enough to do what a lot of people expect him to do, courtesy of the chest beating of people like Mark Lawn.

Theres a famous old quote; Give me the Tools and I will do the Job. At no point since Julian Rhodes took full control of this football club has anybody on the football side of the management team been given the adequate tools. Todd wasn't and now Stuart hasn't. Stuart in his capacity as City legend will doubtless be given more slack than Todd for this, from me for starters, but to say that we are fourth bottom of the whole football league is down to Stuart McCall's management when all you have to do is look at what the poor fucker has to work with day in day out, then your well wide of the mark!

I agree with you in principle, however the difference is that I think the tools he already has are sufficient for a midtable position in this division.

I'm quite prepared to accept that the goalposts have been moved, that there isn't as much money as he was led to believe and that Julian Rhodes has virgins slaughtered before breakfast, but that still doesn't change the fact that we currently have a team of professional footballers which are of a reasonable standard for this division.

The tools aren't good enough to get promotion. They are however capable of better than the results thus far if they are properly managed.

[ChuckleBantam]

I agree with you in principle, however the difference is that I think the tools he already has are sufficient for a midtable position in this division

I disagree. I think it's the usal shite cobbled together on the cheap.



The tools aren't good enough to get promotion. They are however capable of better than the results thus far if they are properly managed.

I think we'd still be in this position whoever was manager. There isn't a manager on the planet that could do this job under the circumstances expected.

Name me the players you have seen with the promise to achieve more than they have shown thus far and say why and you might change me mind.

[Kop Kred]

"We're doomed ah tell ye... DOOMED!"
http://www.btinternet.com/~privatepikessite/Image9_WEB.jpg

"Don't panic... don't panic!"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/22/Clive_Dunn-1973.png/200px-Clive_Dunn-1973.png

[Parrot]

Things might be tight at Valley Parade, but we aren't, at the moment at least, teetering on the brink of administration with players being unpaid and sold out from under him.

Against a financially uncertain backdrop Todd achieved a finish in 2004/2005 in League One of 11th with 65 points. In 2005/2006 we finished 11th with 61 points. And last season we were on the way to a similar position before any player who was performing was sold/loaned/returned at Christmas. If anything Todd overachieved, and we would still be in League One if Rhodes had had the bottle to keep him on.

Thats a load of Turd tinted spectacles Baldytdwn:

Weren't we on a 1 win in 20 when Turd was sacked?

Most of them games we had Holmes/JJ/Doyle and Wideass ect... in the team....they were only sold/loaned out when it was clear, despite over-commiting on the wage budget that we were going nowhere again!

The sale/loan of Wideass sealed our fate, maybe he'd have banged a few goals in that saved us that season, who knows?

Wideass and his goals were the reason we finished mid-table for 2 years, not Turds managerial skills......roflmao:

[baldbantam]

Thats a load of Turd tinted spectacles Baldytdwn:

Weren't we on a 1 win in 20 when Turd was sacked?

Most of them games we had Holmes/JJ/Doyle and Wideass ect... in the team....they were only sold/loaned out when it was clear, despite over-commiting on the wage budget that we were going nowhere again!

The sale/loan of Wideass sealed our fate, maybe he'd have banged a few goals in that saved us that season, who knows?

Wideass and his goals were the reason we finished mid-table for 2 years, not Turds managerial skills......roflmao:

3 wins in 20 actually, and a number of draws. Not that I'm arguing that was brilliant form.

The rest is speculation, both on your side and mine. However, McCall's record over the distance he has been here is not significantly better, nor has he had a period prior when he was producing better results. Any criticism you have for Todd you should also have at least in equal measure for McCall.

[Parrot]

3 wins in 20 actually, and a number of draws. Not that I'm arguing that was brilliant form.

The rest is speculation, both on your side and mine. However, McCall's record over the distance he has been here is not significantly better, nor has he had a period prior when he was producing better results. Any criticism you have for Todd you should also have at least in equal measure for McCall.

How can you judge McCall after 10 games compared to Turds 150 or so?

Its not rocket science to know a mid table team gets rid of their 20 goal a season striker and they will be in trouble....unless your called JR of course! tdwn:

Like I say, Wideass was the reason we didn't go down, not Turds management.

[baldbantam]

How can you judge McCall after 10 games compared to Turds 150 or so?

Its not rocket science to know a mid table team gets rid of their 20 goal a season striker and they will be in trouble....unless your called JR of course! tdwn:

Like I say, Wideass was the reason we didn't go down, not Turds management.

If you judge Todd over the entirety of his games rather than his last 20 then his record with us is far more impressive.

As for McCall, as I've said before, I'm not yet calling for his head. He should have at least till a couple of months after the transfer window to allow any signings he chooses to make to see if they can make an impact.

But his record thus far is not impressive, and if you aren't busy putting him on a pedestal that's fairly obvious.

When we started this season, you did not expect us to be 4th bottom 10 games in, and you knew at that point who the squad was. You can't honestly say that our efforts so far represent a massive success for anybody associated with it?

McCall's past as a player with us counts for very little in terms of assessing him as a manager for us. His past glories as a player are not going to get us points and results this season. I will always respect Stuart as a player, and he is one of my City heroes, but that is in his capacity as an ex-player, not as a manager.

If he wants to be known as a legendary manager then he has to earn those results from scratch. I hope he will go on to do so, but equally if it patently isn't working out down the line I hope that either Lawn or Rhodes has the balls to pull the plug.

I did not want McCall to take this job, because I knew that our current position was always a potential, even likely outcome. We have no win aspect anywhere with a team heading for relegation and a legend being tarnished.

[Parrot]

If you judge Todd over the entirety of his games rather than his last 20 then his record with us is far more impressive.

As for McCall, as I've said before, I'm not yet calling for his head. He should have at least till a couple of months after the transfer window to allow any signings he chooses to make to see if they can make an impact.

But his record thus far is not impressive, and if you aren't busy putting him on a pedestal that's fairly obvious.

When we started this season, you did not expect us to be 4th bottom 10 games in, and you knew at that point who the squad was. You can't honestly say that our efforts so far represent a massive success for anybody associated with it?

We were all ecstatic when Macca came home....but when we started signing the calibre of players we did then we knew deep down that it was gonna be a struggle :(

If Macca fails then who you gonna blame?

A City Legend who was here for a season or a complete fcukwit in the boardroom who's business acumen as took us from the Championship to almost Conference football in record time? tdwn:

[Ed]

We were all ecstatic when Macca came home....but when we started signing the calibre of players we did then we knew deep down that it was gonna be a struggle :(

If Macca fails then who you gonna blame?

A City Legend who was here for a season or a complete fcukwit in the boardroom who's business acumen as took us from the Championship to almost Conference football in record time? tdwn:

Has chuckle hacked your account?

[Parrot]

Has chuckle hacked your account?

Maybe...has Alix hacked yours?

[baldbantam]

We were all ecstatic when Macca came home....but when we started signing the calibre of players we did then we knew deep down that it was gonna be a struggle :(

If Macca fails then who you gonna blame?

A City Legend who was here for a season or a complete fcukwit in the boardroom who's business acumen as took us from the Championship to almost Conference football in record time? tdwn:

I don't for a second hold McCall responsible for our slide over the last few years. That responsibility is in large part on Rhodes' head.

However, McCall must take at least some responsibility for results this season. I don't expect promotion from him and never have done, but I do expect us to be around midtable and not looking over our shoulders. If we finish lower than 16th then he's underperformed. If we should get relegated then he's failed miserably.

[Ed]

Maybe...has Alix hacked yours?

No, I'm Junior himself :)

[Parrot]

I don't for a second hold McCall responsible for our slide over the last few years. That responsibility is in large part on Rhodes' head.

However, McCall must take at least some responsibility for results this season. I don't expect promotion from him and never have done, but I do expect us to be around midtable and not looking over our shoulders. If we finish lower than 16th then he's underperformed. If we should get relegated then he's failed miserably.

So your quick to jump on his back after 10 games when we've won 3 off those games and drawn 1 but defend Turd for a similar run after 20 games?

We can spin it how we like, im slightly disapointed too at our "progress" but you cant make a silk purse out of a pigs ear can you?

[Parrot]

No, I'm Junior himself :)

That figures :rolleyes:

Come on Ed....how can you defend JRs stewardship of our club?

Its like saying Gary Glitters doing a good job at looking after your 14 year old daughter because no one else was available! tdwn:

[baldbantam]

When assessing McCall, it's irrelevant how well or badly previous managers have done. He will stand or fall on his own record.

McCall stood up himself and said that anything less than promotion was failure. Daft to say it in my opinion, but he set his own yardstick.

I'm not jumping on his back. Give him till after Christmas and a chance for any new signings to bed in, unless we are massively adrift at the bottom.

But McCall is not beyond criticism, and results thus far are not as good as could be expected.

[Ed]

That figures :rolleyes:

Come on Ed....how can you defend JRs stewardship of our club?

Its like saying Gary Glitters doing a good job at looking after your 14 year old daughter because no one else was available! tdwn:


Where am I defending it? He's made plenty of cock-up's ...

But he's not solely to blame for everything - Those loan players who replaced Deano and JJ last season could of saved us - Had wethers not gone all defense minded and had some strange obsession with playing Joe Cocbeck.

Heck, how many goals does paynter have this season for swindon??

The team we have, judging by past stats - should be able to get us at least mid table - if we dropped the cart horse wetherall.

[Edwin Fitzgerald]

When assessing McCall, it's irrelevant how well or badly previous managers have done. He will stand or fall on his own record.

McCall stood up himself and said that anything less than promotion was failure. Daft to say it in my opinion, but he set his own yardstick.

I'm not jumping on his back. Give him till after Christmas and a chance for any new signings to bed in, unless we are massively adrift at the bottom.

But McCall is not beyond criticism, and results thus far are not as good as could be expected.

I agree with you in principal, but you have to acknowledge that the performance of the previous regime has had a direct impact on the performance of the team now.

As you say, wait until after christmas before passing judgement on McCall's reign- after this point we will have a more informed view of said tenure, and be more able to criticize or praise decisions that have been made.

[tony d]

I agree with you in principal, but you have to acknowledge that the performance of the previous regime has had a direct impact on the performance of the team now.

As you say, wait until after christmas before passing judgement on McCall's reign- after this point we will have a more informed view of said tenure, and be more able to criticize or praise decisions that have been made.

Don't buy that EF mate...

How many first team players are left from Todds era...Not including kids that is..5?????

Now Bower and Wethers are more than competant at this level so that now leaves 3..

Ricketts is obviously going through a bad patch..

So two left Daley and Johnson... Once again more than competent at this level...

So Macca must be judged on how he gets his players up for the challenge..I in no way believe he should be underfire for his job right now as that is ridiculous...

But you cannot blame the previous management team now as they have gone and Macca has at his disposal the best of what was and the players he chose to come in..

For me regardless of what happens we should allow Macca to fulfil his contract no matter how that pans out this season...

[beerbantam]

Maybe...has Alix hacked yours?

She can perform acts of piracy on metup:;)

[Jantje]

Whether Macca is here for 10 minutes or 10 years, he's going to make mistakes but that goes with the territory and honestly to be questioning his reign after 10 games is ridiculous.

I think its just frustration by the fans after the euphoria of the summer with a legend returning, cheap season tickets and new investment in the club. Peoples hopes were probably raised to highly after 7 years of downward spirralling.

It will only take a run of 5 or 6 games to raise the expectation levels again, thats how desperate fans are for this club to progress again.

If nothing is done squad wise in January, questions must be asked but even then not about Stuarts suitability for the job.

Also, i think certain players are reaching the end of their shelf life and others are not quite as good as we think they may be. Can anyone honestly tell me how Omar keeps JJ out of the Jamaican team cos i know who i'd rather have.

[ChuckleBantam]

.

Heck, how many goals does paynter have this season for swindon??

.

Maybe if some of the Windass "transfer fee" or the "Season Ticket Donations" had seen the light of day, then we might have been able to offer him a place here??

[fcsolutionsboy]

wtf the crowd has chanted for stuart mcCall for 3 years and now after a bad patch u wantin him sacked sort your head out mate, give him time and the results will come.
STUART McCALLS BRADFORD ARMY WERE NOT MAD WERE FOOKIN BARMY.