Mark Bower

[jimmy]

I know a large number of fans speak highly of him and i thought he was a good player,but after speaking to a former player a couple of months back who slated him i decided to analyise his game.

What i have witnessed and i defy anyone who has watched him as an individual to tell me any different,is he is average to say the least.
I have seen first hand his distribution is terrible at best,his reading of the game is slow,leadership,captain material (bollox),tackling is about average at best and the only plus on his side is his heading abillity.

[tony d]

I know a large number of fans speak highly of him and i thought he was a good player,but after speaking to a former player a couple of months back who slated him i decided to analyise his game.

What i have witnessed and i defy anyone who has watched him as an individual to tell me any different,is he is average to say the least.
I have seen first hand his distribution is terrible at best,his reading of the game is slow,leadership,captain material (bollox),tackling is about average at best and the only plus on his side is his heading abillity.

hook: clap:

[Spoonhead]

I've been saying for ages how poor his distribution is. He does make some good tackles though, I'll give him that. I've never been convinced that he is anything above a league 1 player.

[Parrot]

His distribution is his weakness but his tackling and heading abilities are
more than adequate IMO....Im sure he'd do OK for a team at Championship level, Lewis hasn't done too bad this season as he? :rolleyes:

[billybantam]

What i have witnessed and i defy anyone who has watched him as an individual to tell me any different,is he is average to say the least.

Everyone in this division is average...I cant think of many good centre backs in the division, because they are an important player, yet tend to go cheap.

Most, if not all teams, set up with two tall centre backs to head long balls away and the wing backs and central midfielders do the tackling on the floor. Theres no room for little Cannavaros in League 1!!

You can tell which are the opposistion centre backs when they warm up as they all seem to be over 6ft and built like an out brick house...Only that winger Ellison of tranmere caught me out!!

I think Bower is a good player and is relatively conistent.

[jimmy]

Everyone in this division is average...I cant think of many good centre backs in the division, because they are an important player, yet tend to go cheap.

Most, if not all teams, set up with two tall centre backs to head long balls away and the wing backs and central midfielders do the tackling on the floor. Theres no room for little Cannavaros in League 1!!

You can tell which are the opposistion centre backs when they warm up as they all seem to be over 6ft and built like an out brick house...Only that winger Ellison of tranmere caught me out!!

I think Bower is a good player and is relatively conistent.

Billybantam,take a look at the League 1 stats for central defenders and then tell me Mark Bower is a good player.

[BBB]

I know a large number of fans speak highly of him and i thought he was a good player,but after speaking to a former player a couple of months back who slated him i decided to analyise his game.

What i have witnessed and i defy anyone who has watched him as an individual to tell me any different,is he is average to say the least.
I have seen first hand his distribution is terrible at best,his reading of the game is slow,leadership,captain material (bollox),tackling is about average at best and the only plus on his side is his heading abillity.

Thank god for that i thought i was on my own i believe he is our worst defender (edgehill apart) although i accept he sometimes seems to be the only player out there who wants to succeed

[Superfatbantam]

I disagree. He is playing in a poor team at the moment hence his stats won't be fab.

Whilst I accept he doesn't spray the ball around Beckhamesque he is after all a centre-half! His job is not to be the creator. How many times does MBW or Schuey come and get it off him like Gerrard does for Liverpool? He is almost always faced with no option so has to hit it long.

His tackling is his best asset closely followed by his heading. I have no problems with his general awareness or his reading of the game. I think these may have suffered because of an inconsistent back-four and/or poor players in the full-back berths.

[Kop Kred]

I disagree. He is playing in a poor team at the moment hence his stats won't be fab.

Whilst I accept he doesn't spray the ball around Beckhamesque he is after all a centre-half! His job is not to be the creator. How many times does MBW or Schuey come and get it off him like Gerrard does for Liverpool? He is almost always faced with no option so has to hit it long.

His tackling is his best asset closely followed by his heading. I have no problems with his general awareness or his reading of the game. I think these may have suffered because of an inconsistent back-four and/or poor players in the full-back berths.

Not captain material though... whatever you all think of Schuey (I know he's been crap), he should have got the captains armband... he's the only one who gets wound up enough to have a go at his teammates.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[king billy]

Very harsh - one of our best most consistant performers!!

He's low on confidence because he's playing in a shite team - Terry would struggle playing for us!!
Speaking of Terry - he's the best centre half in this country - yet his distribution aint brilliant either - your getting a bit picky when your criticising a centre backs distribution FFS - has it occured to folk that he might not have an easy ball to make because no-one can be arsed making the run for him?!!

Bower is more than capable at this level and could probably do a sound job at championship level - your ex pro mate is full of shite Jimmy!!

[king billy]

Not captain material though... whatever you all think of Schuey (I know he's been crap), he should have got the captains armband... he's the only one who gets wound up enough to have a go at his teammates.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The sad fact is for probably the 1st time i can remember - we don't have one player able to step up and be a natural captain!!....it doesn't help that half the team are loanees...

Bentham is our best prospect as a future captain.....

[DutchBantam]

I have an idea. Let's slag off all the players.

Colbeck is shit and should be playing for Halifax.
Bentham is shit and should be playing for Halifax.
Daley is shit, a poor mans JJ.
JJ was shit up till the point when we sold him.
Windass couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo, till he went to Hull.
Muirhead is shite.
Wethers is too old.
Ricketts is shite.
Edghill is shiter that shite.
Parker is shite.
MBW is shite.
Schumi is shite.
EJ is shite.
Logan was shite.
Youga is shite.
Howarth is shite.
JoeBo is shite.
Bowser is shite.
Graham was shite.
Swift is shite.
Xavier is shite (even though most of you have never seen him play).
Penford is shite.
Ainge is shite.
McGuire is shite (see Xavier)
O'Brien is shite (see Xavier)
Saynor is shite (see Xavier)

Sorry, have I missed anyone?



This season we have used more players than Kammy could even dream of. Players playing out of position. Players being knocked by the manager or dropped for no reason and left out in the cold. There's absolutely no pecking order. The footballing side of the club is a total shambles.

How there can be any solidarity, motivation or morale at the club is a question. How players can be expected to play consistently and play as a team is another poser.

So of course most of the players are not going to be looking their best. And when the fans start having digs at every single player it's going to help them even more.

Piffle.

[Superfatbantam]

I have an idea. Let's slag off all the players.

Colbeck is shit and should be playing for Halifax.
Bentham is shit and should be playing for Halifax.
Daley is shit, a poor mans JJ.
JJ was shit up till the point when we sold him.
Windass couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo, till he went to Hull.
Muirhead is shite.
Wethers is too old.
Ricketts is shite.
Edghill is shiter that shite.
Parker is shite.
MBW is shite.
Schumi is shite.
EJ is shite.
Logan was shite.
Youga is shite.
Howarth is shite.
JoeBo is shite.
Bowser is shite.
Graham was shite.
Swift is shite.
Xavier is shite (even though most of you have never seen him play).
Penford is shite.
Ainge is shite.
McGuire is shite (see Xavier)
O'Brien is shite (see Xavier)
Saynor is shite (see Xavier)

Sorry, have I missed anyone?



This season we have used more players than Kammy could even dream of. Players playing out of position. Players being knocked by the manager or dropped for no reason and left out in the cold. There's absolutely no pecking order. The footballing side of the club is a total shambles.

How there can be any solidarity, motivation or morale at the club is a question. How players can be expected to play consistently and play as a team is another poser.

So of course most of the players are not going to be looking their best. And when the fans start having digs at every single player it's going to help them even more.

Piffle.

You reckon Paynter's pretty good then? ;)

[Rambo]

I have an idea. Let's slag off all the players.

Colbeck is shit and should be playing for Halifax.
Bentham is shit and should be playing for Halifax.
Daley is shit, a poor mans JJ.
JJ was shit up till the point when we sold him.
Windass couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo, till he went to Hull.
Muirhead is shite.
Wethers is too old.
Ricketts is shite.
Edghill is shiter that shite.
Parker is shite.
MBW is shite.
Schumi is shite.
EJ is shite.
Logan was shite.
Youga is shite.
Howarth is shite.
JoeBo is shite.
Bowser is shite.
Graham was shite.
Swift is shite.
Xavier is shite (even though most of you have never seen him play).
Penford is shite.
Ainge is shite.
McGuire is shite (see Xavier)
O'Brien is shite (see Xavier)
Saynor is shite (see Xavier)

Sorry, have I missed anyone?



This season we have used more players than Kammy could even dream of. Players playing out of position. Players being knocked by the manager or dropped for no reason and left out in the cold. There's absolutely no pecking order. The footballing side of the club is a total shambles.

How there can be any solidarity, motivation or morale at the club is a question. How players can be expected to play consistently and play as a team is another poser.

So of course most of the players are not going to be looking their best. And when the fans start having digs at every single player it's going to help them even more.

Piffle.

What you seem to forget hear DB is that this is their JOBS!!

They get paid for the privilege of what they love doing, which I'm sure most on here would agree that they would give anything to do.

If you relate and apply their jobs to most careers in the world of work, it can be understood why they (and rightly so) get flack.

For example, If my boss tells me to do something outside or above my job description do I sulk and do it begrudgingly? Do I fuck! I see it as a challenge and do it to the best of my ability. This can be compared the gaffer in a football club asking a player to play out of position. They should revel the challenge, or at least try their best!

Secondly, if I did my job shit, or was fucking about all the time, I would expect a bollocking from my boss.

I know that I dont have a set of fans overlooking my job, but I dont get paid to train 3 hours a day and get paid shit loads for doing what I would do for free in my spare!!

[DutchBantam]

What you seem to forget hear DB is that this is their JOBS!!

They get paid for the privilege of what they love doing, which I'm sure most on here would agree that they would give anything to do.

If you relate and apply their jobs to most careers in the world of work, it can be understood why they (and rightly so) get flack.

For example, If my boss tells me to do something outside or above my job description do I sulk and do it begrudgingly? Do I fuck! I see it as a challenge and do it to the best of my ability. This can be compared the gaffer in a football club asking a player to play out of position. They should revel the challenge, or at least try their best!

Secondly, if I did my job shit, or was fucking about all the time, I would expect a bollocking from my boss.

I know that I dont have a set of fans overlooking my job, but I dont get paid to train 3 hours a day and get paid shit loads for doing what I would do for free in my spare!!

I understand your point. However the same thing applies to the other 23 clubs in the division. Clubs that actually have a "team", clubs that have proper training, clubs that have a pecking order, clubs where the youngsters are not treated with distain, clubs that have consistency in the dressing room, clubs where the players know each other, have worked with each other for longer periods and know each others game.

If we are using your analogy of our own careers, let's say you work in a team of 11 full time employees and 5 part timers. Every week one leaves the company and you hire in a temp. Sometimes you bring in full time 4 temps at a time, some of them are only with you for a month. Sometimes your management promotes somebody from the department beneath you but they are with you a week, do a good job but then get sent back to their own department. You see three or four of these guys come up for a week or two, get sent back and your management tell the whole company that the department beneath you and the employees working there are rubbish.
Over the course of 6 months you have worked with 20 permanent employees, 10 part timers and 20 poeple from temping agencies. You have sat at 3 different desks and you have not sat next to the same person for more than one month max without musical desks being played around you.

So tell me, do you really think your department will be functioning properly? Do you really think you will have been able to work to your full potential when you have had to show the ropes to so many new staff? Has it not demotivated you and obstructed you that so many faces have come and gone? Has it not pissed you off that your management has slagged off your collegues?

This sort of upheaval happens to 25%-50% of teams at the start of the season, the rest have it on a lesser scale.
So at the start of the season every team has to make certain adjustments, get to know each other and get the blend right. But for Bradford City every single week has been like the start of the season.
Is it any coincidence we played well at the start of the season when everyone was on a level playing field? Is it any coincidence that the constant messing around has allowed the other clubs to gel together while we are stuck in early season phase all season long meaning everyone has overtaken us?

That is what I am saying. Ok, the players do have to take some of the blame. Of course they do. But there is no way on earth that you can expect each and every player to look good each and every week. 50% of them 50% of the time would even be a minor miracle this season.

[Superfatbantam]

Dutch, what an excellent post and analogy of how a football team works in terms of business models!

[Northern]

Bower is certainly no captain, but imo neither was Wetherall. If you look at the team though there aren't many players with captain abilities, for me a captain has to be vocal, I'd say maybe Schuey and definately Ricketts (goalkeepers make shit captains though) have these abilities but apart from them there's nobody!

As for Bower as a player, I think he's our best defender. His distribution is probably the worst in the team but at the end of the day his primary job is to tackle and win headers (i.e. stop the opposition attacking) and he does that very well!

[Rambo]

So tell me, do you really think your department will be functioning properly? Do you really think you will have been able to work to your full potential when you have had to show the ropes to so many new staff?

First of all, I would like to say that you have made some worthy points in your last post, and it will have done wonders for your vbplaza points no doubt! tup:

However, why should the "ropes" be shown to the new staff at City. Surely they have been employed as they know their trade, therefore they shouldnt burden any existing player with their newness.

I agree, this would have to happen in a business model as different systems and processes differ from firm to firm, but in football, tactics, positions etc are the same throughout the game. A manager in the beautiful game should be able to give a direct instruction, style of play and position to a player and it should be understood what is expected of him without him being babysat through his first few honeymoon games.

[DutchBantam]

First of all, I would like to say that you have made some worthy points in your last post, and it will have done wonders for your vbplaza points no doubt! tup:

However, why should the "ropes" be shown to the new staff at City. Surely they have been employed as they know their trade, therefore they shouldnt burden any existing player with their newness.

I agree, this would have to happen in a business model as different systems and processes differ from firm to firm, but in football, tactics, positions etc are the same throughout the game. A manager in the beautiful game should be able to give a direct instruction, style of play and position to a player and it should be understood what is expected of him without him being babysat through his first few honeymoon games.

Do you play football yourself? If you do then you should be able to understand what I meant by the showing the ropes example.
If I play together with the same bunch week in week out, train with them, etc then I know my team mates' trademarks, I get an understanding with them. You learn their unsaid signals, when to play a 1-2, when they are going to make a run forward or when they are going to play a through pass, when they are going to cut inside or go out wide.
This is not something that you just automatically know. How many players move clubs in the Premiership or Serie A and waltz straight into the first team, no matter how good a player they are? Doesn't happen all that often, the players take a week or two to bed in, come off the bench a few times before making their first start. And that is TOP LEVEL football. Drop down to our level and the players will need that little bit longer to gel properly.

What is the difference between a 1-1 draw and a 2-0 loss? Not a great deal.

[Rambo]

Do you play football yourself? If you do then you should be able to understand what I meant by the showing the ropes example.
If I play together with the same bunch week in week out, train with them, etc then I know my team mates' trademarks, I get an understanding with them. You learn their unsaid signals, when to play a 1-2, when they are going to make a run forward or when they are going to play a through pass, when they are going to cut inside or go out wide.
This is not something that you just automatically know. How many players move clubs in the Premiership or Serie A and waltz straight into the first team, no matter how good a player they are? Doesn't happen all that often, the players take a week or two to bed in, come off the bench a few times before making their first start. And that is TOP LEVEL football. Drop down to our level and the players will need that little bit longer to gel properly.

What is the difference between a 1-1 draw and a 2-0 loss? Not a great deal.


Yes I do play football, and understand your sentiments and view, to such a point where I agree with you.

However, my point is that it seems to be excuse after excuse for our performances with City and players/manager/chairman/club should not hide behind notions of:

"we need time to gel"
"we have no money"
"All our players are loanees"
"I'm been played out of position"
"The Iran crisis is on my mind"
"My cat has leukemia"
"I have had the shits for the last week"

Let's stop feeling sorry for ourselves. The players get paid very well so should not feel hard done by and get on with it.

I'm sick of excuses and buck passing. That is all I am saying DB.tup:

[Superfatbantam]

You are both coming from the same place on this!

[Jose]

Quite possibly the slowest centre half ever, certainly against Rotherham for first goal, I have never seen anyone run as slow.

[DutchBantam]

Yes I do play football, and understand your sentiments and view, to such a point where I agree with you.

However, my point is that it seems to be excuse after excuse for our performances with City and players/manager/chairman/club should not hide behind notions of:

"we need time to gel"
"we have no money"
"All our players are loanees"
"I'm been played out of position"
"The Iran crisis is on my mind"
"My cat has leukemia"
"I have had the shits for the last week"

Let's stop feeling sorry for ourselves. The players get paid very well so should not feel hard done by and get on with it.

I'm sick of excuses and buck passing. That is all I am saying DB.tup:


Got you!

[Rambo]

Got you!


Got you too! We can be friends nowtup:

[mrsjdtobe]

adult:roflmao:

[DutchBantam]

Got you too! We can be friends nowtup:

Now look what you've gone and done. You've got Jumbo all excited !!!!

[Parrot]

So the rumours about Gaybo's sexuality are true I see....:rolleyes: