View Full Version : Who is to blame for the England Farce
Is it McClaren, well it's true he is useless and makes Colin Todd look like the inventor of total football.
Is it the FA, they appointed a yes man because it was the easy thing to do and the fact they are still paying Sven, created a shambles of Wembley and are paying McClaren £50k per week to manager England.
Is it the England players, are they in the frame of mind that all they have to do it turn up and win without trying killing our chances.
In truth it's probably all three with the FA being the major culprits in all this.
The FA are run by a worse regime that we have down at Valley Parade. They had the chance to appoint a manager to take England to the next level, they didn't they appointed a manager who was part of an already unsuccesful setup. A big desision was needed to be made and it wasn't, they took the easy option and now we are paying the price.
McClaren is a poor manager, he has achieved nothing of note even with plenty of money to spend. He might be a good number two but he's no number one. McClaren is now showing us what Boro fans have been saying for ages, this guy is boring and can't manage and the sight of the fan throwing his season ticket at him is still fresh in everyone's minds yet just a few months later he was given the top job in English football.
The players who some will already be McClarens favourites were bound to welcome this desision for him to become manager because they had no pressure and didn't need to play for their place.
Look at the game on Saturday, a stonger manager would have used this subs and got rid of the deadwood putting in little effort but no McClaren waits till the 70th minute then replaces a defender with a defender, pure genius!
Look at the players who were subbed, Phil Neville, Andy Johnson and Arron Lennon, all of his favourites were safe from the subs no matter how bad they were playing and all his subs were like for like.
McClaren has to go but he is the easy target and the so called fall guy in all this, changes need to be made much higher up and someone needs to take the job of England manager who will ignore the pre madonna status of most of our players and drop them if they don't perform rather than keep allowing them to simply underperform and keep their place.
Kop Kred
03-26-2007, 02:30 PM
Well said....jump: jump: jump:
BTW.. Pre Madonna?... that would be Lulu would it?:sorry::D
Jamaica Love
03-26-2007, 02:35 PM
McLared is poor tactically but should never have been given the job. I would seriously arther have Sven...the only other managers worth having all work abroad....Minimum experience for international job is having managed in the champions league... and none of our english managers have done that. Bring back Sven his record in qualifiers was class.....we always raped the qualifying leagues with him.
Jantje
03-26-2007, 02:48 PM
The FA & Barwick imo. Too the easy & cheap option. Look how Hiddink has transformed Russia in the same time.
The FA & Barwick imo. Too the easy & cheap option. Look how Hiddink has transformed Russia in the same time.
Russia will beat us as things stand, look at Scotland they are top of their group for the moment even with the Ukraine, France and Italy as opponents.
London Bantam
03-26-2007, 04:45 PM
Bring back Sven his record in qualifiers was class.....we always raped the qualifying leagues with him.
Err...no.
Good post Rick. I would go with pretty much everything on that post. The fact of the matter is, his appointment was hasty, a little too hasty. In addition to the crap appointment of McClaren, there still seems to be the after-taste of Sven; Boring football, the fans getting on the backs of the players and what I consider to be the worst tactic of all, playing Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard in the same team.
One of them has to go. This problem has been seen by many England fans as one of the major downfalls under Sven's regime. He didn't have the balls to drop either of them and now McClaren has come in and his 'major shake up' was to remove David Beckham from the squad completely!
In my opinion, we should have used the friendlies we've had in recent months to test out the team with just Gerrard playing or just Lampard, both in their preferred positions. That way, we could see who performs better, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that Gerrard would be the better choice to partner Hargreaves in the centre of midfield. Aaron Lennon should be played on the right and as for the left, that's debatable but in a full strength England side I would play Joe Cole on the left and Lennon on the right, either side of Gerrard and Hargreaves.
tony d
03-26-2007, 06:22 PM
-----------------Robinson---------------
------------Ferdy-------Terry------------
Neville-------------------------------Cole
----------------Hargreaves---------------
Lennon------------Gerard----------Lampard
--------------------------Rooney----------
--------------------2nd Striker-------------
Now that is how Chelsea line up and they play alright with Lampard and Ballack and Makelle....
Liverpool play a very simmilar way too as do Arsenal and Manure...
So saying you cannot play two strong Attacking midfielders is so laughable it is untrue....
From those positions both score well with Lampard being the best scoring midfielder in Premiership history....
If you take Gerard out of the Liverpool squad they fold and everyone knows it...Take out Lampard freom the Chelsea side and they have very good cover and the rest of the team adapts....That is the main fundmental reason why people rate Gerard higher....
If Lampard was in the Scouse side and the situation was reversed you can near enough guarantee the same hype Gerard gets now would be given to Lampard...
They have the same leadership ability, passing range and scoring/shooting ability.... Only difference is Chelsea are not a one man team...
The England team can accom both players if they are allowed to do their jobs correctly....The fault lies with the managers tactics not the players on this one....
Queue Gerard loving induced posts that have no real product.love:
Spoonhead
03-26-2007, 10:47 PM
I see what you're saying Tony but Gerrard and Lampard have been tried together for England many times in many formations and I don't recall it ever working. I'm not saying it can't....I hope it does one day!
International football is different to club level. Any by that I don't mean better! But different.
One thing I would consider is putting Gerrard just off Rooney with 2 banks of 4 behind. He's played just of the front man for Liverpool with some success. It could be argued that you lose some of Rooneys effectiveness in this role but to be honest, how effective has he been lately for England?!
Yeadon Bantam
03-26-2007, 10:56 PM
WHo decided Sven should go anyway?
NOT ME god it was the media, hope they are fucking happy now, who actually wanted sven to go?????
Parrot
03-26-2007, 10:59 PM
WHo decided Sven should go anyway?
NOT ME god it was the media, hope they are fucking happy now, who actually wanted sven to go?????
Me, he was over-paid shitetdwn:
Unfortunately we employed a guy no one-wanted who makes Sven look like a tactical genius:eek:
I wasn't bother when Sven left but I wanted his whole regime to go, whats the point in getting rid of Sven then apointing his number 2 who was susposed to be having input anyway.
It's like getting rid of Robbo and hiring Todd :D
Superfatbantam
03-27-2007, 12:25 PM
They (Gerrard and Lampard) have the same leadership ability, passing range and scoring/shooting ability.... Only difference is Chelsea are not a one man team...
I beg to differ, tone.
On having seen them probably equally as many times and for both club and country (albeit on TV) I rate Gerrard higher in all of those areas.
One absolute nailed on example of standing up and being counted, leading by example, inspiring your team, perfect technique, power and accuracy = Gerrard's equaliser in last year's Cup Final when he was literally playing on one leg. I don't often see Lampard do that.
As for leadership, Terry does that for Chelsea, not Lampard, and it is Makalele/Essien and sometimes Ballack who organise the Chelsea midfield, from what I've seen. Not knocking him he's still a great player but he is first dropped for me, he has done nothing for England since before the World Cup, how long do you give him?
Blue Monday
03-27-2007, 02:50 PM
-----------------Robinson---------------
------------Ferdy-------Terry------------
Neville-------------------------------Cole
----------------Hargreaves---------------
Lennon------------Gerard----------Lampard
--------------------------Rooney----------
--------------------2nd Striker-------------
Now that is how Chelsea line up and they play alright with Lampard and Ballack and Makelle....
Liverpool play a very simmilar way too as do Arsenal and Manure...
So saying you cannot play two strong Attacking midfielders is so laughable it is untrue....
From those positions both score well with Lampard being the best scoring midfielder in Premiership history....
If you take Gerard out of the Liverpool squad they fold and everyone knows it...Take out Lampard freom the Chelsea side and they have very good cover and the rest of the team adapts....That is the main fundmental reason why people rate Gerard higher....
If Lampard was in the Scouse side and the situation was reversed you can near enough guarantee the same hype Gerard gets now would be given to Lampard...
They have the same leadership ability, passing range and scoring/shooting ability.... Only difference is Chelsea are not a one man team...
The England team can accom both players if they are allowed to do their jobs correctly....The fault lies with the managers tactics not the players on this one....
Queue Gerard loving induced posts that have no real product.love:
Agree with the team selection TD, the switch of gerrard, lampard and lennon would hopefully reep rewards, as for the other striker ??????????????? Johnson and Defoe are the similar players who like to chase the ball through the middle or channels, gerrard is the man to deliver this type of game plan. Give johnson his last chance
Superfatbantam
03-27-2007, 03:14 PM
Blue/tone, on that formation and gameplan you'd play Crouch upfront as the back-to-goals man who allows Rooney and Gerrard et al to come into the attacking game.
How quickly old beanpole is forgotten.
tony d
03-27-2007, 03:17 PM
I beg to differ, tone.
On having seen them probably equally as many times and for both club and country (albeit on TV) I rate Gerrard higher in all of those areas.
One absolute nailed on example of standing up and being counted, leading by example, inspiring your team, perfect technique, power and accuracy = Gerrard's equaliser in last year's Cup Final when he was literally playing on one leg. I don't often see Lampard do that.
As for leadership, Terry does that for Chelsea, not Lampard, and it is Makalele/Essien and sometimes Ballack who organise the Chelsea midfield, from what I've seen. Not knocking him he's still a great player but he is first dropped for me, he has done nothing for England since before the World Cup, how long do you give him?
Without getting into a big bun fight mate that is what i expect folk to harp on about when they mention the undropable Gerards name..
Lampard is the Captain when Terry is crocked.Lampard is box to box 100% everygame. That doesn't mean it reaps the rewards every game or he scores each time or delivers a 40 yard pass.
But neither does Gerard. The amount of folk who spout off about Gerard this and Lampard that should actually take more care when watching games.
Both have immense talent
both are leaders when called upon
both score freely from midfield
both can deliver inch perfect passes or score pearler free kicks.
Neither is better just in different teams where one shine due to the level around him whilst the other is complimented by as talented or nearly as talented players around him..
As for the FA cup final mate ...Re watch it and see how many swingers he fired out of the stadium before that one flew in...Now that in no way means he is shite but he didn't have the greatest game in the final yet he is remembered for that last swinger of fate going in where others during the game went high and over or wide...
To say you do not remember Lampard doing that try looking at the last World Cup qualifying campaign as it was his goals that got us there... Added to the many many others in the Prem Champs Leagues and cups at vital moments and im amazed you even wrote that.
They do not have to be chalk and cheese they have to be managed by someone of the same standard as Wenger, JM, Fergie and Rafa and other top coaches who know how to play attacking football like their sides do. These managers all play that same system and for those that do not have them i bet all would have both in their sides right now if the money was available.
It always amazes me how short sighted and blinkered folk are to the fact that these two played in the right formation like they do at club level would destroy nearly any other team in the world...But as we have had two of the worlds most stuborn blinkered managers whilst these lads have been in their prime we have not and will not see this ever happen.
Dropping Lampard to put in a Barton or a downing or carrick etc will achieve the square root of fook all except rid the team of one of the best scoring midfielders ever.
tony d
03-27-2007, 03:31 PM
Blue/tone, on that formation and gameplan you'd play Crouch upfront as the back-to-goals man who allows Rooney and Gerrard et al to come into the attacking game.
How quickly old beanpole is forgotten.
Again not necessarly...
Saha, Ole Gunner, Smith, Drogba, Henry, Kuyt, Bellemy etc all play in that system and are completely different players to old Crouch.
Johnson if he were sharper defoe, bent, etc could all do a job playing off the feed from Rooney, Lamps, Stevie G....
It's all about balance and having a players like Lamps Gerard and Rooney three of the better players in the world sort of like makes you not need a player who only seems to thrive off lump it forward bypassing the midfield passes..
You want players with pace and power who thrive off through balls and neat interchanges around the edge of the box...
A player like crouch should be the switch in play for the last 30 mins when you need to change tactics when badly chasing a game...
Blue Monday
03-27-2007, 03:38 PM
Blue/tone, on that formation and gameplan you'd play Crouch upfront as the back-to-goals man who allows Rooney and Gerrard et al to come into the attacking game.
How quickly old beanpole is forgotten.
Not forgotten SFB, just not available because of crocked nose job. He would be ideal for tomorrow night and any other game.
Team selection purely based on squad taken to spain (andorra)
Superfatbantam
03-27-2007, 03:38 PM
"Both have immense talent
both are leaders when called upon
both score freely from midfield
both can deliver inch perfect passes or score pearler free kicks.
Neither is better just in different teams where one shine due to the level around him whilst the other is complimented by as talented or nearly as talented players around him.."
I agree, however form-wise I think Gerrard has been far more consistent for England than Lampard has. I won't take away the goals that Lampard got us in the qualifying campaign pre-World Cup, but he hasn't looked as if he could hit a cow's arse with a banjo since.
Wish he'd do some of the scoring he does for Chelsea more for ENgland:
Youtube Video of Gerrard vs Lampard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Qc-P0e2wk)
GERRARD LAMPARD
Skill 8 8
Passing 9 9
Leadership 10 8
Shooting 8 10
Tackling 9 7
Defending 8 7
Speed 9 8
Soccerlens Gerrard vs Lampard (http://soccerlens.com/lampard-vs-gerrard/15491242.html)
Kop Kred
03-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Wish he'd do some of the scoring he does for Chelsea more for ENgland:
Same could be said for Looney!!...
... not for Chelsea like...
... for Man U like!:jd:
Superfatbantam
03-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Same could be said for Looney!!...
... not for Chelsea like...
... for Man U like!:jd:
Fair point.
What other options (realistic) have we got up front?
Defoe
Johnson
Nugent (no offence but not yet, thanks)
These are the ones included in the squad.
Who else is there? The U21s crop looks pretty good and they are all old enough if good enough.
Gabriel Agbonlahor (still one for future)
Matt Derbyshire (playing well but might not be a forward in future, more a winger or old inside right/left)
Cameron Jerome (Don't know enough about this guy)
Leroy Lita (Is doing the business in the Prem as opposed to Championship where Nugent is??????)
Ashley Young (maybe too early in terms of return from injury)
Anyone else fro the Prem who is missing?
The same England players wouldn't dare to perform in the way they do for England when playing for their clubs because they know it's unacceptable.
With England so many excuses are made for them by the England management they simply don't give a toss.
Why is it that when they play for their club the same players are playing at pace, making runs, creating space and such but when they play for England they are content with passing it along the back four.
Don't tell me it's because teams like Isreal have 11 men behind the ball because when they play for Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool they come up against teams like Watford and Sheff Utd who also put 11 men behind the ball.
Blue Monday
03-27-2007, 04:05 PM
The same England players wouldn't dare to perform in the way they do for England when playing for their clubs because they know it's unacceptable.
With England so many excuses are made for them by the England management they simply don't give a toss.
Why is it that when they play for their club the same players are playing at pace, making runs, creating space and such but when they play for England they are content with passing it along the back four.
Don't tell me it's because teams like Isreal have 11 men behind the ball because when they play for Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool they come up against teams like Watford and Sheff Utd who also put 11 men behind the ball.
clap: clap: Exactly. So what is the answer to all.........................sherlock:
Its got to one of the biggest enigmas in the world
Blue Monday
03-27-2007, 04:15 PM
Fair point.
What other options (realistic) have we got up front?
Defoe
Johnson
Nugent (no offence but not yet, thanks)
These are the ones included in the squad.
Who else is there? The U21s crop looks pretty good and they are all old enough if good enough.
Gabriel Agbonlahor (still one for future)
Matt Derbyshire (playing well but might not be a forward in future, more a winger or old inside right/left)
Cameron Jerome (Don't know enough about this guy)
Leroy Lita (Is doing the business in the Prem as opposed to Championship where Nugent is??????)
Ashley Young (maybe too early in terms of return from injury)
Anyone else fro the Prem who is missing?
And last but not leasthttp://www.premierleague.com/en/images/players_wigan_athletic/heskey-v-blades373.jpg
Superfatbantam
03-27-2007, 04:24 PM
Dude, I saw Heskey had scored as many as Crouch, but even I didn't dare suggest a comeback! jawdrop:
This striker debate, if you look around Europe you will find most teams have a simliar pool of strikers to choose from.
How many world class strikers would you say the world cup semi finalists have between them? France, Portugal, Italy and Germany don't have many world class strikers between them. Look at Croatia, the team topping our group how many strikers do they have, Russia too. It's easy to try and find excuses for Englands poor displays but if the players we have played for their country like they do their club we wouldn't be the shambles we currently are.
Blue Monday
03-27-2007, 04:37 PM
Dude, I saw Heskey had scored as many as Crouch, but even I didn't dare suggest a comeback! jawdrop:
I know i was pushing my luck with that one, A few more from the swede era for you
http://www.englandfanzine.co.uk/squad/vassell.gifhttp://www.englandfanzine.co.uk/squad/ricketts.gif:poo:
And the enfield god him selfhttp://www.englandfanzine.co.uk/squad/fowler.gifnotworthy:
Superfatbantam
03-27-2007, 04:40 PM
France? Cisse, Govou, Wiltord, Piquionne, Henry, Trezeguet, Anelka, Saha, Ribery???????? There's 9 for you!
Germany? Klose, Podolski, Kiesling, Neuville, Asamoah????? That's 5 for a start.
And you class them all as world class, I'd say Henry and Trezeguet are but the others in that french line up aren't.
Wiltord, if your saying Wiltord you might as well put Robbie Fowler and Andy Cole down as World Class England strikers.
tony d
03-27-2007, 04:47 PM
France? Cisse, Govou, Wiltord, Piquionne, Henry, Trezeguet, Anelka, Saha, Ribery???????? There's 9 for you!
Germany? Klose, Podolski, Kiesling, Neuville, Asamoah????? That's 5 for a start.
So when fit we have
Owen, Rooney, Defoe, Bent, Johnson, Ashton, Crouch (i cannot "not" mention him), Walcott, Zamora, Harewood, Young, Vassell there's 12 for your list...
The ones in Orange easily match the Germans and 9 of the 12 also match the French Ribery is a midfielder btw as is another....
Fowler and Cole could probably still do a job for England simmilar to what Sherringham did...
So when fit we have
Owen, Rooney, Defoe, Bent, Johnson, Ashton, Crouch (i cannot "not" mention him), Walcott, Zamora, Harewood, Young, Vassell there's 12 for your list...
The ones in Orange easily match the Germans and 9 of the 12 also match the French Ribery is a midfielder btw as is another....
Exactly, if SFB is counting all those french as world class then I can't see anything wrong with the players you have just posted Tony.
A world class striker is someone like Henry, Van Horse Head, Drogba, Eto. To class all those french and german players as world class is unrealistic.
Parrot
03-27-2007, 06:59 PM
Only a complete fcukwit would choose Lamps over Gerrard, over a WHOLE season:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
tony d
03-27-2007, 07:17 PM
Only a complete fcukwit would choose Lamps over Gerrard, over a WHOLE season:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Of course you would say that but season after season it is he who tops the trophies won and goalscoring charts between the pair.
He always outshines him in the OPTA footy stats thing too...
But as long as he is Liverpools only real talent he will always get the nod from those most gullible...
Quick stick a fishing smilie up ....
Parrot
03-27-2007, 07:23 PM
Quick stick a fishing smilie up ....
Your getting the hang of it now T tup:
hook:
Still think I preferred it when you went on a rant though!:chatter: :jerry:
Superfatbantam
03-28-2007, 09:58 AM
I didn't say they were world class. Rick suggested France and Germany struggle when selecting strikers - they are hardly scraping the barrel.
How many world class strikers have we got to choose from when all fit? Rooney, Owen?
Zonnebloem was right, we'll argue over anything in here!
Anyway, let's change the tack. Why do the England players play so well for Club but not country? Is it they style of play? At Man U Ronaldo and Giggs provide a different attacking option which allows Rooney to play his game of dropping deep and mixing up his attack play, Gerrard and Lampard are both allowed more of a free role in their respective midfield berths with players around them like Makelele, Essien, Ballack, Sissoko, Alonso etc knowing how to cover for them when they are needed in support up front, Chelsea and Man U's full-backs seem to play more of a part in their attacks.
England seem to be too predictable and almost play rigidly to the traditions of a 4-4-2 with the fear of making a mistake taking priority over the benefits of taking a risk and being flexible.
But my question stated how many world class strikers do other nations have and you posted that as your reply.
So the players you listed there that France have to pick from Tonyd provided serious options for the England manager to pick from too.
Blue Monday
03-28-2007, 10:22 AM
England seem to be too predictable and almost play rigidly to the traditions of a 4-4-2 with the fear of making a mistake taking priority over the benefits of taking a risk and being flexible.
Look what happened last time we tried to change things;)
England endured a horror show in Zagreb as a savagely unfortunate own goal from Gary Neville contributed to a 2-0 Euro 2008 qualifying victory for Croatia that was all too easy for the hosts.
England's switch to 3-5-2 threw up more questions than answers and, with trouble erupting outside the stadium, Eduardo Da Silva's second half header gave them plenty more to ponder on the pitch.
However much planning had gone into the fruitless change of formation, McClaren could not have foreseen the nature of Croatia's second strike as Neville's easy backpass bobbled right over Paul Robinson's foot and into the back of the net to set the seal on a dismal night for The Three Lions.
I admit we are rigid, but Tont D suggestion of change of midfield positions getstup: from mejawdrop:
There are times and places to try new formations. McClaren had friendly matches in which to do that but went with the tried and tested then during an important Qualifier he trys a new system, everyone could see that would end in tears, bar it seems McClaren.
tony d
03-28-2007, 10:47 AM
Anyway, let's change the tack. Why do the England players play so well for Club but not country? Is it they style of play? At Man U Ronaldo and Giggs provide a different attacking option which allows Rooney to play his game of dropping deep and mixing up his attack play, Gerrard and Lampard are both allowed more of a free role in their respective midfield berths with players around them like Makelele, Essien, Ballack, Sissoko, Alonso etc knowing how to cover for them when they are needed in support up front, Chelsea and Man U's full-backs seem to play more of a part in their attacks.
SFB...Do you watch footy on sky???
Lampard is a box to box player and he defends his own box as much as he attacks or sits in the centre during the build up of play... Ballack and he intertwine from the middle up only...
At Liverpool WHEN Stevie plays in the centre they do the same...
Both still have a Hargreaves player sitting behind them in Makelle/essien or Sissoko/whoever....
Asd for fullbacks getting up at chelsea essien when in that role and cole Liverpool Finnan and the other chap... At Manure Heinze etc or Neville...
Now you see the picture Cole plays that system already as does Neville...
And with all teams employing wingers that also play our system you have to ask why it doesnt work and that comes down to one thing....
The class of manager and coach ensuring the players do the same job in a cohesive unit...
Nothing more / nothing less....
If everyone plays the same system with the near same level of players week in week out at club level under superior management . But fail at international level where else is the blame to sit and how the fook would taking out the most free scoring box to box midfielder we have to replace him with a Barton or a carrick or some other far lesser player benefit the team one bit under the same poor management...
I really do wonder sometimes....jump:
Superfatbantam
03-28-2007, 11:00 AM
SFB...Do you watch footy on sky???
Lampard is a box to box player and he defends his own box as much as he attacks or sits in the centre during the build up of play... Ballack and he intertwine from the middle up only...
At Liverpool WHEN Stevie plays in the centre they do the same...
Both still have a Hargreaves player sitting behind them in Makelle/essien or Sissoko/whoever....
Asd for fullbacks getting up at chelsea essien when in that role and cole Liverpool Finnan and the other chap... At Manure Heinze etc or Neville...
Now you see the picture Cole plays that system already as does Neville...
And with all teams employing wingers that also play our system you have to ask why it doesnt work and that comes down to one thing....
The class of manager and coach ensuring the players do the same job in a cohesive unit...
Nothing more / nothing less....
If everyone plays the same system with the near same level of players week in week out at club level under superior management . But fail at international level where else is the blame to sit and how the fook would taking out the most free scoring box to box midfielder we have to replace him with a Barton or a carrick or some other far lesser player benefit the team one bit under the same poor management...
I really do wonder sometimes....jump:
Exactly what my point was, how come similar set ups can work at Club level but not at international level?
I think we are agreed here, but it seems a funny day, i mean I even saw you and Prawnie agree on something earlier on! :rolleyes:
Blue Monday, I wouldn't want to see a change of system, but I think we should make the 4-4-2 less rigid. Let's have the bombing on fullbacks, let's switch wingers during play to mix it up, interchange Ronney and Gerrard as we attack, basically retain the 4-4-2 shape and principles but make it work for us with the players who can interchange - that way we make the opposition work and put them on the backfoot so that our inidividuals can shine and fulfil their potential.
Rick, perhaps I didn't get the point, when fit we probably have as many world class strikers as France, Germany etc but at the mo we are scraping the barrel with Nugent.
Exactly what my point was, how come similar set ups can work at Club level but not at international level?
Simple because the players or manager decide to play in a different style with the same setup at international level.
I can't point to one instance on Saturday where anyone in the England setup play as they do for club. Do the back four constantly pass the ball amongst each other for their club then launch it 50 yards forward? Do they hell as like so why do it when they are in an England kit.
If the team played with the same tempo as the clubs do we would have won the Isreal game by half time, but the team didn't look up for it from the start which will only give the other team confidence.
Jantje
03-28-2007, 11:06 AM
Scraping the barrel?......Nugent has shown his goalscoring potential at U21 level. Thats more than Walcott. A few years back Steve Bull had a decent record despite not playing in the top flight, its pure footballing snobbery and Sky TV propaganda to think that players not appearing in the "World Class" Premier League can't hack it.
Superfatbantam
03-28-2007, 11:15 AM
Scraping the barrel?......Nugent has shown his goalscoring potential at U21 level. Thats more than Walcott. A few years back Steve Bull had a decent record despite not playing in the top flight, its pure footballing snobbery and Sky TV propaganda to think that players not appearing in the "World Class" Premier League can't hack it.
I'm not saying that. He hasn't played at senior level for a start so one would imagine it would be somewhat of a risk if we did play him.
I agree re Bull and the snobbery. If that's the stance what about McSheffry?
Just to give me a chance here if Defoe, Owen, Crouch, Bent and Ashton were fit would Nugent be anywhere near the senior squad? If 2 of them were fit would he be anywhere near the senior squad? In that case I reckon we are scraping the barrel. Championship is a far cry from International senior level, and I would expect him to carry on where he is for another year or so before breaking into the senior ranks. He'd have been snapped up long ago by a Prem side and would now be a permanent fixture if he were anywhere near Rooney's level, but still he's only young to be fair.
I'm going in a minute, I can't seem to say owt right today!:rolleyes:
I'm going in a minute, I can't seem to say owt right today!:rolleyes:
Aye, you sound like Steve McClaren.
Jantje
03-28-2007, 11:22 AM
Just to give me a chance here if Defoe, Owen, Crouch, Bent and Ashton were fit would Nugent be anywhere near the senior squad? If 2 of them were fit would he be anywhere near the senior squad? In that case I reckon we are scraping the barrel. Championship is a far cry from International senior level, and I would expect him to carry on where he is for another year or so before breaking into the senior ranks. He'd have been snapped up long ago by a Prem side and would now be a permanent fixture if he were anywhere near Rooney's level, but still he's only young to be fair.
I'm going in a minute, I can't seem to say owt right today!:rolleyes:
It didn't stop Sven taking Walcott to a World Cup, that was scraping the barrel when he plainly had no intention of using him.
Superfatbantam
03-28-2007, 11:24 AM
It didn't stop Sven taking Walcott to a World Cup, that was scraping the barrel when he plainly had no intention of using him.
I totally agree.....
Aye, you sound like Steve McClaren.
.......and I told Sven not to take Theo, it was too soon. ;)
Superfatbantam
03-28-2007, 12:04 PM
AND FINALLY...
Only unknown African minnows Zanzibar - who are so bad they are not even recognised by Fifa - have the same miserable record as England over the past five games. (The Sun)
:rolleyes:
I probably expect a goalless draw with Zanzibar at present with the current management team.
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